Are the three bolts and the lock plate out of the front of the pulley? You should be able to rotate the pump 360 degrees easy.

When you say "timing bolt" do you mean the 7/8 nut that holds the notched plate on the end of the pump ?

If the front timing case is on, it' much harder

 

I had the three bolts out and the lock plate off and could spin the pump 360º It would rotate around with pressure and then release pressure and jump forward (a spring inside I guess.

I put the lock plate back on and the three bolts on loosely (I already put the cover back on and new gasket with RTV...I'd prefer to not pull it back off.) and now can move the pump as described in the first post.

And yes, you're correct (of course!) by "bolt" I mean the 22mm/7/8" nut on the end of the pump shaft. Photo:

 

Yeah so to use the dial gauge the lock plate and bolts need to be removed so you can rotate the pump all the way to zero.

Then using a small breaker bar, not a ratchet, you can rotate the pump to 1.56 mm for stock lift and 1.6 mm for slightly advanced.

You use this mini breaker bar instead of a ratchet because it has no slop, it will allow for more precise movement.

Once you achieve the lift that you desire you can then insert the lock plate and lock bolts. Keep in mind that sometimes a lift beyond stock will put the notch for the timing pin in a location that you cannot insert it.

Next time you do this job try it first with a timing case off of the front of the engine it makes it much easier to understand what you're moving and to see if the timing belt slips off.

Start with the pin in the front of the pump as a reference to where the timing marks are that you lined up on all the pulleys.

Remove the pin and remove the lock plate and bolts.

Insert your dial gauge in the back of the pump making sure to allow for a small amount of preload on the end of the dial gauge so that there is no gap between the gauge and the plunger that you are measuring.

Rotate the 7/8 nut on the end of the pump until the numbers zero out on the gauge.

Mark this is your zero by turning the dial on the front of the dial gauge.

Now measure/rotate to your lift that you want.

Hold this in place if using a 300 TDI pump. If using a 200 TDI pump once you get it to the point that you want it lock the pump in place with the small bolt on the lower left side of the back of the pump.

Put on your lock plate and three bolts

remove the locking bolt from the lower left side of the pump and insert the retainer plate that goes behind the lock bolt.

You should be done.





It's probably going to take you about 20 tries to get it right the first time

 

(I feel like I need a one click "Thanks @Naplm00 - You're the best!" macro or something. He always steps up with great info!)

Ok, here I go:

1. I removed the lock plate and bolts
2. Spun the 7/8 nut on the end of the pulley clockwise
3. It spins around with tension, lifting the gauge, and then "pop" drops back to no tension and no lift for about 1/4 turn
4. I keep turning the big nut clockwise through the "no lift/no tension" section until I just start to see some lift at the gauge. I set that point as my zero.
5. Rotate around until I see 1.6 lift (slightly advanced past the stock 1.54)
6. Lock the pump with the little bolt on the side
7. Replace the locking plate and bolts

The only issue I have is that once I get to this new lift I can only get two of the bolts back in. The bolt at the 9 o'clock position seems just a hair out and won't go in straight. Thoughts?

(Above - view with 1.6mm lift)

(Above - view with with zero lift for reference)

 

It seems to me like you are setting your zero incorrectly. You are saying that you are setting the zero based on the dial moving again after it goes beyond the reach of the gauge.

What is happening is thta where you are seeing movement it just where the gauge is relative to the plunger. when the plunger moves down beyond the gauges reach you are seeing no movement. This isnt zero, its just nothing that can be measured since the gauge tip isnt touching the plunger anymore as the plunger has moved down in the bore beyond its reach.

Soooooo

For you you need to adjust the threaded depth of the gauge so that you can see at TDC of cyl 1 where the plunger is no longer moving (not where you can no longer measure) It may take some threading in a and out of the gauge in the back of the pump and sometimes just a few threads is all you need.

To find the zero the gauge pointer should seesaw back and forth over a place on the gauge face. rotating in ONE direction you will see the pointer move to a set position then pause and reverse course without stopping. you can fine tune finding this spot by getting an idea where it iwas pausing and moving the big 7/8 nut back and forth across the TINY area, then setting the dial face to zero where it "pauses" and starts moving the other direction. This is zero.

now you can measure to 1.54 , test fit the pin, it should fit THEN move to 1.6 where the pin may fit but sometimes does not.

if the pin does NOT fit at 1.54 the timing belt is off a tooth or incorrectly installed.

 

To find the zero the gauge pointer should seesaw back and forth over a place on the gauge face. rotating in ONE direction you will see the pointer move to a set position then pause and reverse course without stopping. you can fine tune finding this spot by getting an idea where it iwas pausing and moving the big 7/8 nut back and forth across the TINY area, then setting the dial face to zero where it "pauses" and starts moving the other direction. This is zero.

Now I'm more confused. @Naplm00 seems to be saying that the point where the needle moves from one direction to the other would be the zero but @Red90 indicates it's the long, flat area with no lift. Visualizing it I would think it's the long flat area and the point where the needle see-saws back and forth would be the peak lift.

If I zero based on the long, flat area as @Red90 indicates I guess I have to just keep going around, at least through the four injection areas until I find a spot where the pin goes in and the bolts line up?

 

I think I've figured out my issue. I have two rods (for lack of a better term) in my set (short and long) as well as two pump adapter things (that the rod slides through and the gauge mounts on top of).

With the short rod and short adapter (as well as long/long) the rod is too short to keep constant contact inside the pump.

I tried the short and long rod both in the long adapter but the plunger wouldn't move freely. What I really need is a "medium" rod I can use in the short adapter.

Unless anyone thinks I'm still off base I'll Dremel down the long adapter so that it's long enough to keep in contact with the pump plunger.

 

Don't dremel it you'll ruin it. It's machined perfectly flat on the end.

All you have to do is screw the adapter either slightly further in or slightly further out into the back of the pump. Also you can position the actual dial gauge fully seated into the top tension knurled nut or almost all the way out. They should give you about a full inch of adjustment in either direction.

If you cut the rod to length you're going to destroy it.


You don't actually need constant contact inside the pump. You just need to make sure that you can see the zero and then 1.54 mm above it. It's a tiny fraction of the overall throw of the gauge


in the above long-winded response you can see right below "soooooooo" it says you're going to have to mess around with how deep you seat that gauge either via the thread or the knurled nut.

if the threads are loose in the back of the pump when it's not fully seated just wrap some Teflon tape around the threads. Make sure you get all of it out when you pull it out of the back of the pump Even the smallest amount of Teflon tape inside of the pump will block the nozzles/ports

 

Back at this after being on vacation for the week. Still struggling…

I just changed my timing belt and am 99% sure (which means I probable screwed it up!) that I had the flywheel in the right spot, aligned the marks up on the crank and timing wheel and got the belt on properly and the timing pin fit fine. (1991 ROW Defender 90 200TdI)

Now I’m trying to set the timing with the dial gauge. I’ve still got the flywheel in TDC and am rotating the 7/8 nut clockwise as you can see in this video. At the 13 second mark you can see that what I think is Zero. The pump is rising up until that point and then starts turning the other direction. If I keep turning, the gauge eventually stops (where the gauge adapter loses contact with the pump plunger) for about 1/4 or so revolutions of the 7/8 nut and then starts lifting again (and eventually hitting the same zero where it reverses direction).

My question now is ASSUMING that the zero point at 13 seconds in the video is correct (and the rest of my procedure is, too) what do I do from here?

After the zero (13 seconds) I don’t get any lift, just the plunger moving back down until I lose contact with it?

 

You need to set it up so that the dial gauge is always touching the piston. If it comes free, you can’t determine the start of lift. The zero point is the lowest reading. You will see a dead spot just before the pin will go in.

The 13 second point is the high point of the lift, not the zero.

 

I just checked and I was wrong about the dial losing connection with the piston.

I rotated until I was in the 1/4 or so turn area where I get zero dial movement and pulled the gauge. When I put the gauge back in (at the same spot) I can feel/see the gauge come in contact and the dial lift, so I know I'm in contact.

So...

I'm guessing that the long 1/4 turn area where I see zero dial movement is my zero? I'm thinking I keep advancing through this area until just before the dial starts lifting and set the dial at zero and then go for my 1.54 lift from that point?

I did that, locked the pump (bolt on the side) at 1.54 but now the locking plate bolts and the timing pin hole don't line up...

This is killing me. Anyone on the Denver area want a case of beer to give me a hand?

Thanks.

 

Yes. The long dead period is the zero. Keep in mind that there are four lifts per revolution. One for each injector. You need to make sure you are setting it up for the injection event where the pin goes in.

 

Somehow you are seriously overthinking a simple job.

Rotate the pump around until the timing pin lines up and stick in the pin to make sure.

Remove pin and rotate pump counterclockwise until you see no dial movement. That is zero.

Zero the gauge.

Rotate clockwise until the dial gets to the desired lift. This should be close to the location that the pin goes in.

Lock the plate.

Remove flywheel pin and rotate engine twice. Just before it gets to TDC again check the gauge zero. Rotate to TDC and verify lift is what you want.

 

Ok, I sorted this out. It turns out I was using the wrong notch in the flywheel to determine engine TDC and none of the holes in the injection pump timing were lining up. For future reference, here is what I did:

1. Had a helper rotated engine while I stuck a screwdriver through the bottom drain hole in the back flywheel cover. When the screwdriver stuck on one of the (two, apparently) notches in the flywheel I marked this notch with some fingernail polish.
2. I rotated the pump’s 7/8 nut around a few times to see if the pump’s hole, the hole inside spinning by the timing belt and the locking bolt holes lined up. Nothing ever lined up so I assumed that the marked flywheel notch was the wrong one.
3. Back under the car I had the helper turn the crank bolt clockwise until I found the second notch (not marked) in the flywheel and then repeated step two above. Voila! The timing pin slid in to the pump and the locking bolts all lined up.
4. I removed the timing pin from the pump, knowing I was “pretty close”. I slowly rotated the pump’s 7/8” not clockwise, though the long flat area with no needle movement. When the gauge’s needle just started to go up I backed off a bit and set my Zero on the gauge.
5. I then rotated very slowly clockwise until the needle went around 1.54 times (indicating 1.54mm lift on the injection pump). I then locked this in with the small locking bolt on the side of the injection pump. Note: step 4 and 5 involve only rotating the pump nut a small bit, maybe 1/8 of a turn total, so the three locking bolts and timing pin (drill bit) still went in.
6. I put the locking plate and three locking bolts back on to the pump, loosened the small locking bolt on the side of the pump and put its lock tab back on.
7. Then, to check, I rotated the crank bolt clockwise twice (a little mark on the top of the pulley helped me track it’s rotation. Just before the mark got back to the top of the pulley on the second rotation (indicating I was back at top dead center - TDC) I saw that the gauge went to zero and then rotating slightly more, I got to my final 1.54mm lift. I crawled back under the car and verified I was at TDC because my (unmarked) flywheel notch is visible through the hole in the housing.

This was a simple process and took about 5 minutes once I realized I was using the wrong flywheel notch.

It’s kind of a pain to use this gauge method (you have to remove the injection pipes and the oil filter housing) so I hope that this method is really more accurate than just jamming a drill bit into the pump housing hole.

I also set my timing at 1.6mm lift (versus the 1.54 I mention above) since I’m having a lot of white smoke when I release the accelerator pedal. I’ll update this thread once I get it all back together. Thanks all.

 

Sorry I lost this thread because the new forum set up is fucking retarded.

I still don't think you're actually measuring zero.

And adding timing advance it's just going to make the white smoke problem worse. As you will be injecting later with a smaller window of burn time .


In any case I'm glad you got it running again.