Engine, and handling.

You wont find many 3 link front set ups due to the engine being right in the way and hi speed handling would be another issue.

google 4 link suspension. lots of stuff

 

4 link is even harder. Go to Pirate and look it up. There are a couple in the LR section running 3 links. People do 3 links because of packaging and space issues. 4 links are done in the rear because there is just more room to work with. 3 links can be stable and handle well BUT they require a lot of tweaking to make so. Dont bother with the bolt on SG one. Its scary.

 

It can be done, but to do it right it's not a "bolt on" option...

 

It doesn't take that much tweaking to get it right...but your right that the $G kit is plain scary...

 

It doesn't take that much tweaking to get it right...but your right that the SG kit is plain scary...

I briefly considered it, but my understanding it's much better suited for rigs that are "trailered" to their destination. And we still do it the old-school way trying to drive there and limp home.

 

I drove to and from the wilds last year 6 hrs each way with a SG 3-link. It did great off road but that trip was what made me decide to get rid of it. Guys have done it right but like Frank said it's not a bolt on setup. From my understanding the best route is - lowers wide at the axle narrow at the frame. Upper needs to be high on the axle and frame. Rerouting exhaust makes it possible to mount the center on the frame. Lots more info over on pirate4x4

 

I was trying to decide on a 3-Link for my truck a few months back too. In the end, the drawbacks offest the gains. I still love to drive my family safely around town in my truck.

 

Hi folks, thanks for all the replies. I must mention that this is a chassis upwards build, the engine (3.9 V8) is 2 feet further back now. Eventually this will end up looking like a land rover based unimog! I hope!!

Has anybody done a 3 link conversion? Any pictures or videos?

Sam.

 

Go over to pirate and search. A bunch of threads about it... If built correctly, you won't notice a difference in handling with a 3 link, 4 link or any other suspension. I have to emphasize "done correctly". I drive my d2 all the time on the street with zero issues and is very stable. I have custom radius arms and a 4 link in the back with coilovers on 37's... Even at 70mph

 

The $G 3 link is great for the Trail and Trailer or anything with "Trail" in it.

 

Speaking from experience and having worked with 3-link allot back in the UK, if your wanting a vehicle to daily drive then it's not for you. It's best left for comp trucks, full trail rigs or ones that see occasional road use, ie... to & from the shops to get a bag of chips & a 6 pack

Making a bolt-on kit is a whole host of compromises.... flex vs lift vs roll and keeping it easy fitting for the average joe.... etc... whilst not making it so expensive that it's not marketable and something that's not going to fall to bits the first time it's beaten on, been there done that and it's a bloody nightmare.

If you want a setup that'll handle well at speed, give reasonable flex and still be bolt on then personally I'd go for the Devon 4x4 full King kit with some Giggle Pin extended rear arms plus what ever flavor springs you prefer, I like OME's....

If you want to build yourself, as noted above.... lots of info out there, esp on Pirate. All depends how handy you are with the plasma torch & welder.... have fun & post pic's of your project

 

I think a higher valved shock will help the scariness of it.

You have to also look at how the 3-link works and why they are really only run on the rear of the trucks. (except DIIs, why did they take it off?) I feel they work great in the rear because at high speed they effect of bumps and speed in the road drag past 3-link. In other words you are lifting the 3-link, tailing arm from the trailing arm side.

In the front you are doing the opposite, bumps are hitting the 3 link directly first then move past the radius arm.

 

I think a higher valved shock will help the scariness of it.

You have to also look at how the 3-link works and why they are really only run on the rear of the trucks. (except DIIs, why did they take it off?) I feel they work great in the rear because at high speed they effect of bumps and speed in the road drag past 3-link. In other words you are lifting the 3-link, tailing arm from the trailing arm side.

In the front you are doing the opposite, bumps are hitting the 3 link directly first then move past the radius arm.

Higher valved shocks dont make up for terrible suspension geometry... My fox shocks are valved pretty stiff.. I think they are originally valved for the rear of a D2 as I thought the same thing. It is a bit rough on the trail and still handled like **** going down the highway.

A triangulated 3 link works different than a regular 3 link as well. What makes a 3 link stable or scary is the gemotry, link length, placement and verticle separation. It works the same way if it's being pushed or pulled just like radius arms.

 

Defender, Disco and Rangie front suspension is basically a 3 link front end to begin with. The rear is a triangulated 3 link. Are you looking for more flex from the front axle? Easy to get more flex but handling at speed suffers.

 

I thought the rear was closer to a triangulated 4 since the A frame attaches to both frame rails and meets at the axle. A three link rear would be two lowers and a single upper link.

Also, I didnt know radius arms made for a 3 link suspension?

 

Jeep set up with a track bar or panhard bar for the rover guys. Panhard controls side to side, radius arm to control rotation of the axle. Jeeps knock off of the defender front suspension.

 

Problem with radius arm suspensions is that they turn the axle housing into a sway bar. As the suspension cycles, the housing is twisted.

If youre looking for a little more flex, why not try Johnny Joints where the radius arm meets the frame to give a little more movement? Ive also ridden in a truck with wristed arms and found them to work pretty well. Gave the axle a little more movement. Still not ideal but not too bad.

 

Wait a second...why not just replace one of the radius arms with a 3 link style arm (one bolt at the axle housing) ?

Wouldn't the remaining radius arm prevent axle wrapping? Granted it would be taking additional stress, but it seems beefy enough to take it...

N/m...I see that d90 already did this experiment years ago. 5" more on the ramp.

 

If you just did one arm you would have a 2.5 link.

The unlinked arm would prevent it from wrapping and also flexing at all.

Best thing is so set the pinion angle slightly less than 3 degrees which is where the pinion angle is set normally... least I think. I've been drinking.

 

Hi folks, thanks forall your input, much appreciated. Yeah, its more axle travel I'm after but i want a fluid movement instead of having to crash and bang over things!!
I've got a few ideas in mind its always nice to see other peoples work before jumping inat the deep end though!

EDIT: I must add, this vehicle when built will be trailered to all competitions so on road performence doesnt matter, its purely just to gain more and better articulation.

Cheers

Sam

 

You can fabricate front radius arms with a different frame end joint like johnny joint to free up the range of motion. Problem with a three link is you need some form of triangulation or a panhard bar to locate the axle from side to side. There are basic fabricator 3 link and 4 link kits available that could be adapted to fit a land rover.

If it is a trail rig the johnny joint would work pretty well, it is hard connection so a lot of road noise is transmitted into the passenger compartment. Most of the kits available locate the joint on the axle and use poly or rubber busing at the frame connection to dampen the transfer to some extent.

 

I was going to use rose jointed radius arms on all 3 links to aid movement and reduce binding, the noise and comfort isnt an issue as its strictly an off roader and will be trailered to and from events.

Any thoughts on this?

Sam

 

If it is for off road performance and flex they are great. We have an issue with dust and dirt getting into the joints and they seem to wear quite quickly. Johnny and Jimmy joints are rebuildable.

 

Excuse the saft question but what is a johny joint?!

The mud over here will probably make them where quite quickly but they are quite cheap so I'm not to worried about them wearing really.

Sam

 

I think a johnny, jimmy, currie joint, rose joint at the frame end of the front radius arm would free up the land rover front end vs the factory bushing don't you? The factory bushings limit the drop of the front axle same with the rear trailing arm frame end bushing. The factory bushings do limit the travel and provide a small level of anti roll.

Rovertym uses a johnny jointed rear trailing arm to increase travel same should work for the front axle and I think rovertym did those at one time.

Attached pic shows what appears to be a front radius arm with a different joint than factory

Link has a list of several joint types

http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/spring2008/joints.htm

 

Sam,

On another note, drove through your part of the country a few years ago. Very nice!
Since you are so close to Solihul can we get you to sneak over and take some spy photos of new rovers

 

Those are a good idea and i should imagine they would work well compared toa standard radius arm.

The currie joint looks to be what we call a rose joint,I'm using those both ends of every link to eliminate any binding of bushes, I'm aiming for the front to be able to move as freely as possible with just the springs and shockers left to do there job.

I've had a few good ideas and everybodies input on here with pro's and cons has been very helpful indeed, thanks all, much appreciated.

I'llget some pictures up of the back end over the weekend for those interested, i can lift (with the springs removed) the rear axle up and down to its maximum travel with no binding at all, I'm very pleased with how it turned out and I'm aiming to get the same from the front end too.

Cheers,

Sam.

 

The currie joint looks to be what we call a rose joint,I'm using those both ends of every link to eliminate any binding of bushes

Erm... nope, not the same.... currie/johnny joints have the swivel ball encased in a polymer housing. That's how they reduce the vibration compared to rose or spherical bearings that have a thin layer of teflon (PTFE) on the inside of the outer race. As noted above true spherical bearings will wear fast & rattle.

You really need to do more searching, Giggle Pin 4x4 has a D90 with extended radius arms on the front for improved flex, you could also use some of of the X-Eng 'X-Flex' joints to make some arms.... but I'd give Simon a call first to check that the'll be within spec for front use.

I'd suggest that you join the Devon 4x4 forum, lots of the top UK challenge guys hang out there & they have 'been there & done that' for just about every possible option in LR suspension. They have also driven it hard in UK & European events... know what does & doesn't work.... think lots of mud !

 

There is so much bad information in this thread it's not even funny...

 

PM me with the ''need to know information'' then

 

I'll post it here later today... Internet is down and don't want to use my phone

 

Okay, great stuff.

Cheers

 

Its cost, thats the only reason.. I've priced up Fox, Bilstein and Koni, oh Marzochii aswell, and for a good remote resovoir set up im talking 2000 quid plus per corner!!

Amate of my dates who takes comp safari (racing) seriously just spent 15,000 on coilovers

The prices in the states are so much cheaper, I'm considering a holiday just to come and buy parts!

Sam

 

I apologize for not engaging my brain before I started typing. I was forgetting a whole host of steering and suspension geometry issues. Sometimes I am to quick to reply before I think.

Good Luck with your project.