Defender Source Forum banner
1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 1984 Defender 90. (first year of 90" wheelbase). I have been renovating this since 2006 and just put on the road this year. I replaced the original diesel as it was junk. I found a new in crate short block 2.5 NAG motor. Completed build with all new original LR parts. Everything works but I'm having an issue at highway speeds. I know it's not a flyer but it really struggles with maintaining rpms in 5th gear. If I go up even the smallest of inclines it drops down to 50 mph or less and I have to drop back to 4th and slowly build up the speed and rpms. On a flat paved road it will cruise at about 68 mph. flat out in 5th. That said when I'm at 50 mph and I want to speed up to say 60mph and I step on the throttle, I mean floor it; you can feel it hesitate or even misfire slightly for a couple of seconds before climbing to 60 mph and smoothing out. I was thinking it was starving for fuel so I have been using the manual choke to richen the mixture and it seems to eliminate the stumble. I realize that's not a solution by any means but I have been unable to find a mechanic near where I live who knows how to adjust the carb. Also with the choke partially on the speed drop off on hills is not as bad and recovery of original speed is much quicker. The motor now has about 2,500 miles on it. I'm not an auto mechanic but I do a lot of my own work on the vehicle. I have checked the timing and it's 16 deg. BTDC @ 2000 rpm. with the vac line pinched off. The points gap is 15-16 thou. I have no idea about the carb. So my question is where are the adjustment screws for each jet. and what is the starting adjustment ie: 1 1/4 turns or 2 turns etc. From there I would like to richen the mixture for top end and see how it performs. Here are the numbers I pulled off the carb tag. Weber carb # 32/34 DMTL and 226700 7 and 6-101-179-00 also the LR # for carb is # ETC6350 . I believe LR commissioned Weber to make LR specific carburetor's for them so it's not a normal Weber inventory

number.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,554 Posts
Have looked to see what jets you have in it? Are you running at altitude?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,877 Posts
im pretty sure this a progressive carb so at low speed only the small butterfly is open in the carb (primary) at high speed or throttle input the secondary should open with a mechanical linkage inside the carb.

its a SUPER common aftermarket carb used on all types of engines, so searching for it should give you basic steps on troubleshooting.


Start with the basics: does it open and shut fully, does the choke plate fully collapse, is the timing correct , ect
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
im pretty sure this a progressive carb so at low speed only the small butterfly is open in the carb (primary) at high speed or throttle input the secondary should open with a mechanical linkage inside the carb.
Yes that's correct I did check the mechanical and vacuum advance and both are working as expected.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,301 Posts
Timing at 16 deg BTDC is a lot of advance for that engine.
If it starts easily and does not ping when you floor it, your OK, but if the hesitation on full throttle is accompanied by pinging, you need to go to 10 to 12 deg BTDC.
The 32/34 has "pollution control" features that make the carb hard to tune.
There is an anti-run-on-valve comprised of a solenoid that shuts off the fuel flow when the key is switched off to prevent the engine from running-on when hot.
As a result, the slightest bit of trash will cause the carb to perform poorly.
Also it sounds very much like you are suffering from fuel delivery.
Your carb likely has a brass needle and seat that is prone to getting clogged with trash and causing the bowl to overflow.
Although it doesn't sound like this is happening, if the float height is too low, you'll get the symptions you describe as the mixture will lean out at higher RPMs.
In the past, I've typically made some changes to the vehicle to help circumvent fuel delivery:
1.) get a side plate for a manual fuel pump and install a lift pump from a Series IIA or III.
2.) Replace all the plastic fuel line with proper rubber line and hose clamps.
3.) Order a viton tipped needle and seat from Pierce manifolds in CA. We use to use the Gross Jets from Moss Motors, but I think the ones for weber downdrafts are discontinued, but you can check.

If you don't want to deal with a carb, we are going to offer an adapter for the Series Land Rovers for the Holley Sniper 1100 EFI.
This will automatically adjust to your changes in elevation and control the mixture.
You'll need an inlet manifold for a IIA or you could send us your inlet manifold and we could make a custom adapter for you if you decide to go this route.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TommyTookalook

·
Registered
Joined
·
814 Posts
Research this for yourself, but I have this on my computer for a 32/34 on a 2.5:

Primary:
Idle - 55
Main - 110
Air Correction - 160
Emulsion - F30

Secondary:
Idle - 60
Main - 115
Air Correction - 160
Emulsion - F30

I run one on my IIA with a 2.25, but have re-jetted it for my motor.

Napalm is correct, it’s progressive and it sounds like you are having an issue with your secondary. You can clean it, make sure it’s jetted correctly and make sure the parts are working as they should……otherwise there is not much to it. A mixture screw and an idle adjustment screw. I doubt either of those are contributing to your issue.


ETA:

If Your choke is making it run better, then perhaps your main jets are a little lean. I run a 115 and 117 in mine @ Sea Level. In the winter time I still have to run with a tiny bit of choke until I’m good and warmed up. But, my intake manifold is separated from my exhaust manifold and this carb gets super cold on startup in the winter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Timing at 16 deg BTDC is a lot of advance for that engine.
If it starts easily and does not ping when you floor it, your OK, but if the hesitation on full throttle is accompanied by pinging, you need to go to 10 to 12 deg BTDC.
The 32/34 has "pollution control" features that make the carb hard to tune.
There is an anti-run-on-valve comprised of a solenoid that shuts off the fuel flow when the key is switched off to prevent the engine from running-on when hot.
As a result, the slightest bit of trash will cause the carb to perform poorly.
Also it sounds very much like you are suffering from fuel delivery.
Your carb likely has a brass needle and seat that is prone to getting clogged with trash and causing the bowl to overflow.
Although it doesn't sound like this is happening, if the float height is too low, you'll get the symptions you describe as the mixture will lean out at higher RPMs.
In the past, I've typically made some changes to the vehicle to help circumvent fuel delivery:
1.) get a side plate for a manual fuel pump and install a lift pump prom a Series IIA or III.
2.) Replace all the plastic fuel line with proper rubber line and hose clamps.
3.) Order a viton tipped needle and seat from Pierce manifolds in CA. We use to use the Gross Jets from Moss Motors, but I think the ones for weber downdrafts are discontinued, but you can check.

If you don't want to deal with a carb, we are going to offer an adapter for the Series Land Rovers for the Holley Sniper 1100 EFI.
This will automatically adjust to your changes in elevation and control the mixture.
You'll need an inlet manifold for a IIA or you could send us your inlet manifold and we could make a custom adapter for you if you decide to go this route.
Thank you for all that info. I'll certainly check into things just as soon as it warms up a bit. I don't have a heated work space so at -18 c it's a little chilly to be working on it. I use it everyday so I'm nervous about causing a bigger problem as I have no mechanic to fall back on if I mess up. It's 30 kms. to the grocery store so if I break it I'm hitchhiking and at 67 yrs. old that's not an option I look forward to. LOL
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,231 Posts
Try starting with adjusting your float as was mentioned above. I chased a similar starvation issue on a 32/36 on an old BMW that was due in major part to a very slightly too low float.
Good luck and congratulations on getting it on the road.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I agree with that as a good starting point. My plugs are a nice tan/grey color so it's definitely not over fueling.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,909 Posts
Time to throw in a Chevy 250. Straight bolt in. Much more power and parts at every store.

As to the carb, I would first assume there is something wrong and rebuild it. It does not make sense that the jetting would be a long way off as it is the right carb setup for that engine. The rebuild procedure is in the workshop manual.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rdavisinva

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Time to throw in a Chevy 250. Straight bolt in. Much more power and parts at every store.

As to the carb, I would first assume there is something wrong and rebuild it. It does not make sense that the jetting would be a long way off as it is the right carb setup for that engine. The rebuild procedure is in the workshop manual.
It's a new carb. So perhaps it's just the wrong one for my application. I like the swap option but that was a $17,000 brand new crate motor. I figured I would go all original Land Rover parts for the restoration incase I decide to sell it. I go places where even quad runners are nervous and I've yet to stuck. That's what I bought it for, but having no mechanic anywhere near me to fix things if I break anything major; that's got me considering selling it as an option. I'm probably at about $60,000 plus Canadian on this project. I'd consider the Chev. swap if I could find a serious buyer for the motor. I don't think people realize how much actual Land Rover parts cost by the time you have them shipped overseas from foreign countries. $17,000 for a short block new in crate. Everybody wants a piece of you when say it's a Land Rover.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,909 Posts
Wow. That is crazy. You should have done a TDI and have asked here first. Land Rover parts are cheap. You just need to look in the right places. Original does not affect resale value with Defenders.

What carb did you buy? New correct ones are $360 CAD. If you bought a new correct one and it does not work, return it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wow. That is crazy. You should have done a TDI and have asked here first. Land Rover parts are cheap. You just need to look in the right places. Original does not affect resale value with Defenders.

What carb did you buy? New correct ones are $360 CAD. If you bought a new correct one and it does not work, return it.
Yah I know. Classic rookie mistake. Unfortunately I bought all this stuff back in 2007 while I was still driving truck for a living . Then in 2017 the oil sands were in a downward spiral so I moved back to my dads hometown and finally got it out of storage and got it on the road. Pretty sure it's too late to send things back. 2500 miles on everything now. I did a complete body off resto on chassis and mechanical so in theory it has a normal long life ahead. It had 144,000 miles on it before the rebuild. I left the body and interior as is. Added galvanized chassis, skid plates, diff covers, ladder, bush bar and roof rack. A 10,000 lb. winch re-engineered the front bumper to accommodate the winch. New springs, shocks, poly bushings, overhauled transfer cases, new clutch and flywheel and a host of other things I can't remember it all. If it was mechanical I replaced it or rebuilt it if not available. Spent way too much money on it only to have a global pandemic come along and wipe out my savings and a couple of side businesses. Oh did I mention that it cost me $20.00 for a 60 km drive on the highway. It doesn't like going 60 mph. If I don't go 60 mph the transport trucks ride my back bumper until the next available passing lane. Kinda takes the fun out driving it. So needless to I love tooling around in the bush. 100's of miles of old logging roads to explore.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,909 Posts
My original suggestion still stands. The 2.5 is doing zero for the resale value. Nobody wants that engine. You would have trouble selling the truck for $17k with it installed. It is lost money. Put in a Chevy straight 6 and you will be much more happy driving it. Easily double the power and the same fuel consumption. You can probably sell the engine to someone with a Series to cover the cost.

If the carb sat around for 15 years, it probably needs a rebuild despite it being "new". Something is stuck or a jet is plugged. Assuming you bought the right carb.

To compare, I can do 85 mph in my TDI 90 and get 10 liters per 100 km.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
814 Posts
Guy comes here with a carb problem and the solution is to swap engines?
Figure out how it’s jetted and confirm it’s correct, rebuild it and drive the truck. $60 and a Saturday in your warm house as opposed to what will be into the thousands and take much more time freezing your ass off outside.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That's ok, everyone has their own opinion. I had a 4x4 magazine from the southern USA tell me that with all I had done and the way it looked that it should fetch somewhere between 40 to 50 thousand USD. He said the guys into 4x4's down there own on average 4 different trucks each. If you find the right customer then money is no object. Hence leaving it all original Land Rover. 1984 was the first 90' wheel base produced and to some people that has historical value. I'll let the next guy turn it into a resto mod.
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top