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Art never cast a stone!

I guess no one read the post anyone do this.


From: [email protected][SMTP:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [D90] Wheel bearing seals

Dave
The advantage of lubricating your wheel bearings with gear oil is more than just a convenience. Gear oil is a better lubricant for this application, wheel bearings will run cooler as a result of less friction (and the gear oil provides some cooling capacity) and hence will last longer. The disadvantage of this arrangement is you have a greater possibility of leaks. Land Rover installed axle case seals in the rear primarily because of warranty issues in the North America market. Here where Rovers are marketed as "up market" vehicles and the minimum price for one is $40,000+, Rover found that these folks don't want drips on their driveways and garages - period!

In Australia where vehicle durability seems to be of a greater concern, removing the rear axle case seals is standard procedure. On the front another thing done is to remove the front axle case seal, the inner swivel housing seal and the outer hub seal so that literally gear oil can flow from one set of wheel bearings to the other passing through both swivel assemblies and the diff on the way. To accomplish this effectively you need to overfill the diff by jacking the vehicle up in the front. Unlike engines and transmissions you don't create any problems overfilling diffs (within reason!). The other critically important thing you need to do when you are eliminating axle case seals is to upgrade inner hub seals. Before Rover eliminated axle case seals they had either single or double lip hub seals. When they went to grease in the wheel bearings they down graded the hub seals because it is very easy to seal in wheel bearing grease - it doesn't go anywhere because it doesn't flow! The big problem with this arrangement is that these down graded seals don't seal some things from coming in such as water! In my opinion whether you eliminate the axle case seals or not you should upgrade the inner hub seals to prevent the ingress of nasties into your wheel bearings.

On a related subject - swivel housing grease vs gear oil, I haven't seen a debate in a while on this list about it. Similar to the axle case seal issue it was introduced as a solution to a warranty problem - leaky swivel seals and American driveways and garages, but it was actually an improvement, swivel housing grease is moly-disulfide and you can't get a much better lubricant for this application. If you don't want to eliminate the axle case seal but want better wheel bearing lubrication, eliminate the inner swivel housing and outer hub seal and run your wheel bearings in moly-disulphide. Again it is extremely important to upgrade the inner hub seal when doing this.

Bill
Great Basin Rovers

The only trouble with this is plasic axle covers will probly leak! What goes out will go in! If you gots those fancy flange thingys you are goood to go!
 

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1988 Defender 110 3.5 V8 Twin SU carb “ROW” South Africa
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2022 update: tearing down my ROW 110, see restoration post section, and encountered the rust/ paste issue first hand. Here are some pics for reference.




 

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That looks like an older type axle with the Railko bush on the top of the swivels. If you are ordering swivels, remember there is more than one type!

Is this the axle you are restoring to put on your vehicle? How quick do you need to get this done - have you tried electrolysis rust removal?
 

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1988 Defender 110 3.5 V8 Twin SU carb “ROW” South Africa
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That looks like an older type axle with the Railko bush on the top of the swivels. If you are ordering swivels, remember there is more than one type!

Is this the axle you are restoring to put on your vehicle? How quick do you need to get this done - have you tried electrolysis rust removal?
Good morning mossburg. Thank you for looking at post and offering some ideas.
yeah this is an 1988. You’re right it’s early for a variety of reasons including 2 seal rings AND gasket from research I have completed. Will look into those ideas for rust and pitting. Appreciate the tips.
There are a number of shops in this area, radius 100 miles, that offer chrome plating. Still cool for peeps in my area to dip their wheels, 22’s baby, in chrome and spinners go with it. Others are still doing bowling ball paint jobs 🤣🤣. We have quite a variety of services. Powder coatings for outrageous money and back yard restoration types with blow up paint booths.
I have requests out to a number of shops, near Space Coast here on FL, so lots of tech, to find out if possible to clean and replace the chrome. If it’s cheaper than new swivels…. Looking at anodizing as well. I know… but I have some experience with firearms and curiousIf anodizing or even cerakoting might be less expensive. Those chemicals to clean firearms are so powerful maybe these coatings that don’t rust would be a NEW WAY.
Regardless thanks for reminder about the Raiko bush. I toyed with the idea of upgrading to the later model with dual bearings but I’m gonna try and keep her as original as I can while upgrading and improve those things that are most important.
purchases are based on when I get overtime. Lol.
 

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Good morning mossburg. Thank you for looking at post and offering some ideas.
yeah this is an 1988. You’re right it’s early for a variety of reasons including 2 seal rings AND gasket from research I have completed. Will look into those ideas for rust and pitting. Appreciate the tips.
There are a number of shops in this area, radius 100 miles, that offer chrome plating. Still cool for peeps in my area to dip their wheels, 22’s baby, in chrome and spinners go with it. Others are still doing bowling ball paint jobs 🤣🤣. We have quite a variety of services. Powder coatings for outrageous money and back yard restoration types with blow up paint booths.
I have requests out to a number of shops, near Space Coast here on FL, so lots of tech, to find out if possible to clean and replace the chrome. If it’s cheaper than new swivels…. Looking at anodizing as well. I know… but I have some experience with firearms and curiousIf anodizing or even cerakoting might be less expensive. Those chemicals to clean firearms are so powerful maybe these coatings that don’t rust would be a NEW WAY.
Regardless thanks for reminder about the Raiko bush. I toyed with the idea of upgrading to the later model with dual bearings but I’m gonna try and keep her as original as I can while upgrading and improve those things that are most important.
purchases are based on when I get overtime. Lol.
I am fortunate in that we have lots of suppliers here in the UK. I also have lots of second hand parts available.

I am not sure how good re chroming the swivel balls will be as over here it isn't really worth it. I bought a swivel kit for £120, which is about $147 and includes the Railko, lower bearing, gasket, seal, one shot grease etc.

The reason I mentioned the electrolysis is that I cleaned up my swivel pin housing and I was surprised how well it came out. Also electrolysis only removes the rust, not good steel. I also used it on the hubs, stub axles and also a full rear axle case! Look on the Internet for videos on how to do it - if you have the space it really is quite easy.

I will see if I can post some photos
 

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You still need to clean the items when they come out if the tank, but with a wire brush and water you can get good results. A pressure washer is great if you have one. Be careful of flash rusting as it dries.
 

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1988 Defender 110 3.5 V8 Twin SU carb “ROW” South Africa
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I am fortunate in that we have lots of suppliers here in the UK. I also have lots of second hand parts available.

I am not sure how good re chroming the swivel balls will be as over here it isn't really worth it. I bought a swivel kit for £120, which is about $147 and includes the Railko, lower bearing, gasket, seal, one shot grease etc.

The reason I mentioned the electrolysis is that I cleaned up my swivel pin housing and I was surprised how well it came out. Also electrolysis only removes the rust, not good steel. I also used it on the hubs, stub axles and also a full rear axle case! Look on the Internet for videos on how to do it - if you have the space it really is quite easy.

I will see if I can post some photos
That’s fantastic. I will do just that.
i am not in big hurry so ordering from PS or even RB and waiting 6 days is doable. I am trying to do local but saving allows me to get OEM parts when necessary/ desired.
I think my hubs are toast though. I looked through my factory manual and there’s no that I could find dimensions that I can Mike to see if they’re within tolerances. I’ll see what I can do some emery cloth and the pitting I just don’t think I can get past everyone I’ve seen including Mike from Britannic restorations and others said if there’s pitting get rid of the axle and get a new one so the seal can do its job
My dad was many engineers and he was always teaching us stuff from radio amateur to physics to electroless us. I forgotten all about that I don’t remember what he told me but I will be looking that up and seeing if I can do the same thing. Overtime just came up and I’m gonna head to work lol cheers
You still need to clean the items when they come out if the tank, but with a wire brush and water you can get good results. A pressure washer is great if you have one. Be careful of flash rusting as it dries. View attachment 474611 View attachment 474612 View attachment 474613
Beautiful. Just saw these. Yes that’s the plan. I tried to look up Corollas course we don’t have that here in America but we have different versions that I think are similar. It’s just the darn swivel balls that’s the issue that I’m really concerned about my housing‘s are great and having already cleaned them with gasoline and paraffin they’re already almost 100% better. Appreciate the effort in providing the photos thank you
 

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Also remember Railko/Railco type swivel housings have a different pre-load spec.

Max and Moss, IMO both sets of pics showing swivel ball? The balls shown are scrap.
 

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Also remember Railko/Railco type swivel housings have a different pre-load spec.

Max and Moss, IMO both sets of pics showing swivel ball? The balls shown are scrap.
Yeah. I figured. I am However going to Ceracoter and another coating company here in Central FL to see if they could re plate for LESS than replace.
probably go pear shape but… gotta ask. I’ll let y’all know late tomorrow.
 

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As was told to me: RTFM! Read The Factory Manual.
Thanks for the help KGH. As someone who is new to spanner work I do try to do that, however as someone new to spanner work I used the setting from the factory manual not thinking there may be two different ones and the fact that getting the correct factory manual for 30 year old vehicle isn't always easy. Also, when looking for a factory manual for a vehicle with so many owner modifications over the years, there ain't a manual that is specific to my vehicle.

But never mind, the great thing about Land Rovers is there is a such a strong and helpful community of enthusiasts that, when there is something you are unsure of, you can ask and get help from folks with vast amounts of knowledge and experience - well usually!

Thanks again for your help. Have a good day.

Mick
 
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