[Vedrover]

For anyone who ran into this issue - has your WIPAC kit come with the new flasher relay?


For me everything (other than non-matching color coding on wires where hot/neutral was reversed on the new sidelights and blinkers) was plug an play. Sure, until you install the new flasher, the turn indicators blink way too fast. But once the new flasher is installed - it's all back to normal speed.

No cross-talk, no nothing, all working as it should, no SLDs installed. Granted - I still have original headlights and incandescent side markers (tiny ones on the front wings).

I would only suggest to bring everything back to stock (including any dash wiring you've changed, etc.), remove all SLDs, connect your new blinkers (keeping front wing side markers incandescent) and get them to work in rapid-fire mode. Then plug in your WIPAC flasher and see if that fixes the issue. If it doesn't - there's something wrong with your wiring and you need to chase that before you start adding resistors to your circuits.

 

[emj]

I had a similar issue to the one you describe. I had the RDX grounded bulb and the new relay and was still having issues. What fixed it for me was to add incandescent turn signal repeaters, my Tithonus did not have these. Once I added them, the lights worked.

Now, I have a different issue where approximately 40% of the time, the turn signals won't flash until the car runs for some time, once it heats up, they work perfectly. I haven't had time to diagnose this.

 

[Rocky]

I did wipac turn and stop led lights with my build. Use an LED flasher relay that I got off Amazon... probably plenty of choices for them with varying loads. No problem with my non led trailer lights

 

[twozzie]

Crikey, mine was easier BUT I only changed to LED bulbs and kept the original lenses and wiring. Added in 2 load resistors on the rear turn signals, added the wipac relay, works perfectly no issues.

 

[Uncle Douglas]

When we instal led turns we install the load resistors on each side and then use an adjustable flasher relay to fine tune flasher speed and make sure the trailer lamp on pinnacle is not illuminated. We have never needed to add a ground as indicated above. The issue is resistance, the led lamps have almost none so it needs to be added so the flasher relay works correctly.

 

[Angus]

When I installed the LEDs, I did as Uncle Doug says above. Works perfectly.

 

[Red90]

We have never needed to add a ground as indicated above. The issue is resistance, the led lamps have almost none so it needs to be added so the flasher relay works correctly.

It is not ground. You re-wire the indicator bulb with a couple of diodes. A few dollars and ten minutes. You then do not need to use load resistors. Load resistors defeat the purpose of reducing the electrical load with the LEDs.

As far as the relay go, the RDX one works with any mix and match of lights as a plug and play.

 

[NPT90]

Also I am pretty sure the EP36 Novita relay fits defenders and can be purchased at most autoparts stores.

It isn't adjustable but it has a reasonable flash rate and is readily available.

------ Follow up post added October 8th, 2019 07:54 AM ------

It is not ground. You re-wire the indicator bulb with a couple of diodes. A few dollars and ten minutes. You then do not need to use load resistors. Load resistors defeat the purpose of reducing the electrical load with the LEDs.

As far as the relay go, the RDX one works with any mix and match of lights as a plug and play.

Ah, the old one way electrical trick

 

[Red90]

It is not ground. You re-wire the indicator bulb with a couple of diodes. A few dollars and ten minutes. You then do not need to use load resistors. Load resistors defeat the purpose of reducing the electrical load with the LEDs.

As far as the relay go, the RDX one works with any mix and match of lights as a plug and play.

I was thinking I should make a drawing. Apparently I did. Ah to have a memory...

https://www.defendersource.com/foru...ed-blinker-lights-25643-6.html#post1919536345

 

[Sharkadile]

Thanks to EVERYBODY who took the time to jot down some advice - much appreciated!

So as of today ... I've got most of the problems fixed! Shipment came in from RN, and I got the WiPac adjustable flasher installed ... then found out the polarity was reversed on the right-rear LED. Still waiting on the RDX Earth Fix bulb to come from the UK - so I am leaving the bulb out of the dashboard for now.

The only abnormal thing that is happening now - is the trailer indicator light remains lit all the time on the dashboard?!? Will that go away once I get the RDX Earth Fix installed?!?

Anybody that has any insight - let me know!

 

[Red90]

The relay should have an adjuster for setting when the trailer light comes on.

 

[BarryO]

It is not ground. You re-wire the indicator bulb with a couple of diodes. A few dollars and ten minutes. You then do not need to use load resistors. Load resistors defeat the purpose of reducing the electrical load with the LEDs.

If you use load resistors to obviate the need for a new flasher relay, certainly. The load resistor kits commonly sold use four 6 ohm 50 Watt resistors. When installed, they draw 50 watts per side.

But you don't need anything like this to fix the dash indicator issue. A single 27 ohm resistor per side does the trick. It only draws 5 watts per side, much less than a single incandescent indicator bulb. One option if, like me, you don't want to cut into wiring behind the dash, and don't go the Bolt on Bits blub route.

https://www.defendersource.com/forum/f47/97-d90-le-refurb-156524-3.html#post1919767056

IMO the main reasons for going LED is for longevity and weather resistance. Getting power down as low as possible is nice, but drawing 5 watts through switch and relay contacts designed for 50 should be fine.

 

[Sir Sam]

Ok, ill just chime in and say that sometimes diving head first into figuring it out on your own isnt the best first step, I didn't need to reinvent the wheel today when this thread had the solution.

I was also installing wipac leds, Ive had a kit sitting here awhile that I finally got to installing because my econoseal mating connectors arrived. I had similar issues others have reported where one side blinked with the turn signal dimmer.

I only had the issue on the left side turn signal blinking the right slightly dimmer. Figuring it was a ground issue I spent some time playing with grounds as I knew I had a bad one on the right front turns, and had already run a new ground wire.

My red herring ended up being the right side repeater lamp being disconnected, without that resistive load the left turn signal was able to feed the right turns. Got that fixed and both work correct now, but only because I still have one incandescent bulb on each side for load. When I install my newer style LED fender repeaters I will be back in the same situation, so I ordered the RDX grounding bulb.

As previously commented by red 90 the issue is with how the indicator bulb on the dash is driven, since its a common bulb for both sides the original design feeds either side of the bulb from one side of the turn signals. So when one side is flashing the other side is providing the ground for the dash bulb, with the low low resistance of the LEDs this means you end up grounding through the light ground, not the intended ground path(flasher switch? still not sure on that one).

So if you follow Red90s wiring suggestion above you will only feed the bulb from one side via the diodes, through the bulb, to a ground.

I highlight the relevant stock wiring setup for anyone curious about how the sides feed each other:

 

[rdavisinva]

Play this video before you proceed:

 

[hanzo111]

I had the same issue. when my turn signal was engaged R or L all would flash. I installed the adjustable relay, then at the advise from a sales rep at RN I removed the dash bulb for the turn signal indicator. This fixed the issue.

I will install load resistors on the rear indicators on Monday and see if I can replace the bulb at that point.

 

[Vedrover]

All’y’all experiencing the issue - have you replaced ALL indicators, including the side markers (on front wings), as well as dash illumination with LED?

I currently still have incandescent side markers and dash illumination and everything else is LED, including headlights. No issues whatsoever. I suspect that those few tiny lightbulbs keep the overall loop resistance at a level where there’s no crosstalk.
This is on a stock configuration 110. I stand by my original recommendation here - return to stock and then start adding LEDs - indicators, headlights, then dash illumination.

 

[rdavisinva]

Do you have a single dash indicator light or 2 separate ones?
Did you watch the video?

 

[Vedrover]

Do you have a single dash indicator light or 2 separate ones?

Stock 1988 110. One dash lightbulb. One dash indicator that tells you your blinker is on, but not which one.

I’m tellin’ ya: if you have crosstalk in a stock config with a proper Wipac flasher relay - you went one/two lightbulbs too far with LED. before you start adding anything to your circuits, take it back a notch.
I have a working configuration, keeping dashboard light and 2 wing-mounted side markers incandescent.

PS: Regarding the video - my background is industrial automation. I appreciate a refresher on the operation of electromechanical flasher relay circuit but it wasn’t earth-shattering.

 

[rdavisinva]

Regarding the video - my background is industrial automation. I appreciate a refresher on the operation of electromechanical flasher relay circuit but it wasn’t earth-shattering.

Excellent.

 

[Sir Sam]

Stock 1988 110. One dash lightbulb. One dash indicator that tells you your blinker is on, but not which one.

I’m tellin’ ya: if you have crosstalk in a stock config with a proper Wipac flasher relay - you went one/two lightbulbs too far with LED. before you start adding anything to your circuits, take it back a notch.
I have a working configuration, keeping dashboard light and 2 wing-mounted side markers incandescent.

PS: Regarding the video - my background is industrial automation. I appreciate a refresher on the operation of electromechanical flasher relay circuit but it wasn’t earth-shattering.

yup exactly, lose the resistance of one of the flasher bulbs and you get the cross talk, no need to add load resistors if you add the diodes for the indicator bulb.

industrial automation: Hey me too, though more on turbine controls than BOP or other automation.