Ok guys I have been talking to a friend of mine who just bought a 110 with a 200tdi in it. His first Land Rover. He is a gear head and his trade was diesel mechanic. We have been talking about getting more power out of 200's.
We would like to know what you have found to be the limitations of this engine? What type of carnage have you had on your quest for more power? Also why did you have that carnage? Who has really pushed these things to the limit?
Any and all input is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
You should be able to do 150 hp, 300 lb-ft with a better turbo and enough fueling. Don't go nuts on boost or you will lose the head gasket. Keep EGTs in a safe range and you should be fine. A TD5 is a better base if you want to push power as they will take a lot more.
So, back on topic. I am looking at the same thing. Also a diesel mechanic. The bottom end looks strong enough to handle power. The limits are the injectors and getting a spray pattern that will attomize the amount of fuel needed for 180-200hp. The heads need to be worked over and upgraded studs/gasket is a must.
My current situation is not allowing me the facilities to play but as soon as I get back to the states game on.
Abe:
Like most small diesels, the main limit is displacement.
The 200TDI head is a weak link because of the small bridge between the valves.
The 300TDI head will fit the 200 and is an upgrade to consider along with the head bolts Les mentioned.
The 300TDI Discovery manual IP has a separate fuel enrichment lever on the side of the pump that you might consider as well as it will also fit the 200.
You may want to talk to ACR and Turner in UK.
Since the 200TDI shares the same basic 5-main block as the 2.25/2.5 petrol, it will be worth while to understand what they did to increase a 2.25 petrol out to 2.8 liters.
I don't know the particulars, but seem to recall that it required a special crank and or rods, but could be wrong.
When I spoke to them many years ago (when I was trying to increase a 2.25 petrol to a 3.0 liter displacement), they were NOT using the international stroked out 300TDI diesel crank and rods (which I think may not fit a 200TDI block).
If a larger intercooler and turbo are used, the fueling capacity of the stock pump may pose limits.
As John mentioned be wary of the head gasket.
I am sure there are shops that can increase fuel output to supply a 200TDI that needs more fueling, but don't know of any off the top of my head.
Too much boost in the 200TDI will vaporize the crankcase oil and create a disappearing act that will baffle the best... so make a note if and when you are over 20 PSI.
I have talked to several people who connected a low pressure propane boost with great success that did wonders for performance, but I have no experience overall. Generally they are set to only add propane when the petal is mashed down all the way in 3-4-5 gears.
150HP is a reachable goal John mentioned, just how much do you want to spend to get there is the real question?
Keep us posted as to how this works out.
Someone else's R&D often becomes another's knowledge.
The 200TDI head is a weak link because of the small bridge between the valves.
The 300TDI head will fit the 200 and is an upgrade to consider along with the head bolts Les mentioned.
The 300TDI Discovery manual IP has a separate fuel enrichment lever on the side of the pump that you might consider as well as it will also fit the 200.
If you are serious and want answers, ask on the UK forums. There are many people that have pushed and past the limits and many that know a lot about what they are doing. Most have moved on to the TD5 as it is easy to get one and 200 hp has been shown to be a reliable goal. I've never heard of anyone pushing 180 hp on a TDI with long term reliability. IMO, it is the same as people that were doing these numbers on the 1.9 lieter VW engines. They all blew up in a year or two.
My understanding is that there are significant drivability factors that become apparent when chasing big power with a Tdi. In order to have a large enough turbo to see close to 200hp, you lose all bottom end power. 2.5L on its own, without boost, isnt much.
The answer would be a variable vane turbo (which is available, but is still comparatively small to improve bottom end) or twin turbos. I have never seen a twin turbo Tdi. I'm not sure why, but someone must have tried it.
There are also some folks in the UK removing the turbocharger and replacing with a supercharger. This is an interesting possibility for twin charging.
There are guys in Australia that have been talking about doing it, though probably not with the 200TDI, more likely with the TD5 where you have better control.
Look for "Porny" on the UK forums. He has done some hybrid turbos that increase boost and efficiency without losing bottom end and he sells them if you can get a hold of him...
Thanks guys. This is the type of stuff we are after. Please keep it coming.
He is a Cummins fan and we all know what they can do, but now he is a 200tdi owner and the game is on.
Yes! Set up a 50/50 methanol distilled water misting set up directly into intake manifold via intercooler discharge pipe 1 month ago....No increase in economy and inlet temps actually went up slightly. Most likely due to water mist displacing air/ oxygen content. Rerouted the misting to in front of the intercooler. Much better results.
switching 300 manifolds onto a 200 requires the 300 head studs (longer) and the two manifolds. I have tried to use a 200 intake with a 300 exhaust manifold as the appeared to be the same but the 300 casting has some reliefs cast into it to clear the exhaust casting that can't be ground out of the 200. It should be noted that if you are using a 300 manifold on a 200 engine a custom down pipe is required, not that that should be any surprise.
I have a customer who has the 200 intake and exhaust manifolds with turbo off his disco engine from where I did that conversion for him last month if anyone is interested in those let me know and I'll put you in touch.
My car came with a box of receipts. One is from a company called "The Turbo Centre UK LTD". The PO claims my 200 is fitted with a T28 Hybrid. I have emailed the company in search of more precise spec's.
The 200 TDI is of weak design regarding the bridge between the valves, so you might want to use a 300 TDI head.
Would like to know how the TDI fire ringed head works out.
The LR TDIs are famous for head gasket issues and this may be easy to accomplish and start a trend for more miles between blown head gasket changes.
Hope there are no weaknesses that result from the machine work.
Great on paper, however the design was flawed. As the stock system is a dry belt system the gears never recieved proper lubrication, also the gears were a spur design causing them to be noisy. To make it worse the mounting of the idler gears was weak and caused total engine failure. The belt design is currently reliable and can hold for the power. On top of that the company went under, according to sources.
Impressive numbers...
Yes familiar with concept use on other engines, but not with that much boost.
Will be interested to see how the 200 TDI does with fire ringing.
MW50 has been used for years.
It was popular in WWII with aircraft take off and landings when extra power was required. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MW_50
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