Knocking when coasting in Neutral just before complete stop - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 21st, 2019, 10:11 PM
Vedrover
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Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
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Knocking when coasting in Neutral just before complete stop

Calling all acoustics and noise wizards!


INTRO:
200TDI with LT77 (50A suffix E, yes, I know it's not the right one for the 200TDI, blame the PO who did the swap) and 22D LT230 (1.4 gear ratio).
Vehicle was bought in an unknown condition. Gearbox and transfer case do have usual leaks, however, no visible whiplash or freeplay.
Clutch plate and bearing are newly replaced.

ISSUE:
Shortly after fluids were replaced (75W90 for transfer and ATF Dextron for the gearbox), a knocking sound appeared. Initially would come and go, now it's getting more consistent. It appears to only manifest itself when coasting down (as in rolling towards a stop in Neutral). Just as the vehicle comes to a complete stop, a knocking is heard, sounds just like a washer/dryer drum coming to a stop...
Here's a short video (excuse the sideways orientation), it's heard in the last few seconds of it:

https://youtu.be/46lAUeLswDs


What could it be? Thanks!
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  #2  
Old May 21st, 2019, 10:35 PM
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94 NAS D90 6.2LS, '91 110 200 TDI
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Have you checked rear propshaft to parking drum brake bolts as well as the parking brake drum/shoes? Next time you coast to stop, pull lightly on brake to put tension on the system—see if anything changes.
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  #3  
Old May 22nd, 2019, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis View Post
Have you checked rear propshaft to parking drum brake bolts as well as the parking brake drum/shoes? Next time you coast to stop, pull lightly on brake to put tension on the system—see if anything changes.
^This was my first thought too. I had similar noise and found it was coming from the hand brake drum.
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  #4  
Old May 22nd, 2019, 08:45 AM
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Allen
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I have this issue and believe it is the handbrake drum as well - especially since my handbrake pulls up about verticle. Need to figure out how to sort it.
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  #5  
Old May 22nd, 2019, 09:16 AM
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Alex
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Thanks, all, tested it today on the way to work and it definitely feels like it's related to the handbrake operation.
Will pull it apart this weekend to have a looksie.
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From another forum on "what killed the British auto industry":
- "I'm pretty sure it was Joseph Lucas."
- "Ah, The Prince of Darkness with his three position switch: "off, flicker and dim"."
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  #6  
Old May 22nd, 2019, 10:41 AM
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check and see if it goes away when you apply the handbrake...
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  #7  
Old May 22nd, 2019, 11:11 AM
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Alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
check and see if it goes away when you apply the handbrake...
What happens is that if, while coasting and just about before stopping, I apply the handbrake, just as it engages, it knocks as if the brake shoe is beating on the drum (different knock), then, as I release, it, it knocks as in the video but at a bit faster rhythm.
I tested it a few times, symptoms were the same each time. Then I didn't get any knocking for a while (as I otherwise would) during normal driving and coasting, and then it comes back periodically after driving for another 20 miles or so but not as pronounced.
I'll record the handbrake test video on the way back home just for my records.
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From another forum on "what killed the British auto industry":
- "I'm pretty sure it was Joseph Lucas."
- "Ah, The Prince of Darkness with his three position switch: "off, flicker and dim"."
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  #8  
Old May 22nd, 2019, 10:29 PM
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Alex
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Part 2 - testing the effects of the handbrake. Knocking is towards the end of the video.

https://youtu.be/7S5fb94WI2U
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From another forum on "what killed the British auto industry":
- "I'm pretty sure it was Joseph Lucas."
- "Ah, The Prince of Darkness with his three position switch: "off, flicker and dim"."
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  #9  
Old May 28th, 2019, 01:12 AM
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Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
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Finally got to pull the handbrake drum off today. LR once again taught me to never start anything, however small, after 6pm. 2am right now and I'm kinda done for today.

So, the oil seal is leaking. I opened up my other "spare" LT230 in the hopes that I can cannibalize it, but it had the same problem, although, not to the same level.




Cleaned it up with brake cleaner for now and put it back together for now. I am waiting on a possible freshly rebuilt tranny/transfer box to come my way, will swap these in when they come, or pull it apart then, if they don't.

I'll drive it tomorrow to see if there's any difference at all from not having sticky handbrake anymore (at least, for a while).
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From another forum on "what killed the British auto industry":
- "I'm pretty sure it was Joseph Lucas."
- "Ah, The Prince of Darkness with his three position switch: "off, flicker and dim"."
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  #10  
Old May 28th, 2019, 02:03 AM
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Just replace the rear output seal. Super quick and easy. If the LT230 is otherwise good, it is super simple...
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  #11  
Old May 28th, 2019, 09:27 AM
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Alex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis View Post
Just replace the rear output seal. Super quick and easy. If the LT230 is otherwise good, it is super simple...
Rear seal, unfortunately is not the only concern, front one also leaks, speedo needle jumps at low RPMs, so, I suspect the speedo drive is sticky, and paper gaskets all around don't look too good either.
So, I've been planning to pull it out for a while, at the very least, to inspect and reseal.


On the current issue: the knocking seems to have disappeared for now, so I'm going to assume that it was caused by the sticking expander. The later had been pulled apart, cleaned, greased with Aeroshell 64 (not 'cause I wanna be fancy, but 'cause I had an open one laying around).
Handbrake now almost feels too light, but at least, I now know how a properly functioning one should feel like.
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From another forum on "what killed the British auto industry":
- "I'm pretty sure it was Joseph Lucas."
- "Ah, The Prince of Darkness with his three position switch: "off, flicker and dim"."
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  #12  
Old May 28th, 2019, 10:59 AM
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Cool--it would be nice to have a spare LT230 to rebuild at my leisure... On the speedo, it is typically the cable that is sticky. What always worked for me was to disconnect it from each end and spay first cleaner and then lubricant through the cable till it runs out the other end. I made a funnel/balloon at the speedo end that I taped/sealed to that end and pushed fluid through and let it run out under the truck. The second time, I just removed it and installed a VDO, but that isn't for everyone...
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  #13  
Old May 28th, 2019, 04:24 PM
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Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis View Post
On the speedo, it is typically the cable that is sticky. What always worked for me was to disconnect it from each end and spay first cleaner and then lubricant through the cable till it runs out the other end. I made a funnel/balloon at the speedo end that I taped/sealed to that end and pushed fluid through and let it run out under the truck. The second time, I just removed it and installed a VDO, but that isn't for everyone...


Possible, but I just installed new cable less than 3 years ago, and used graphite lubricant, and it was still jumpy a couple of weeks after the install.
Might go the VDO route eventually, in part because of the irritating needle dance and in part due to the fact that my speedo seems to be showing approx. 6mph/10% higher on average with either 235/85-16 or 7.50R16 wheels.....
__________________
From another forum on "what killed the British auto industry":
- "I'm pretty sure it was Joseph Lucas."
- "Ah, The Prince of Darkness with his three position switch: "off, flicker and dim"."
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