Electrical Death - Help! - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old June 17th, 2019, 11:20 PM
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andre
95' D90
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Electrical Death - Help!

So I could use some advice.

Driving a long happily today and my NAS D90, with the 4.6 upgrade simply dies on me. Initial troubleshooting and I can tell the pump is not priming. Next step, checking the fuse box, there is no electricity running fuses to the fuel pump.

This puts me at my troubleshooting limits.

Having been stranded in the middle of the road, 100 miles form home, I have the car towed to a shop I don't know. Their diagnosis is the fuel pump is fried, the pump relay is fried, and the distributor cap AND rotor are done.

I know for a fact the rotor and the distributor cap and rotor were super clean and less than a few months old and they were cheap knock-off.

So I'm stuck with dropping a small fortune to have the shop drop the tank and do the work.

Here the question that I know the shop cannot answer (they are just concerned on how to fix the problem)
  • What could have possible caused this to happen
  • What can I do to troubleshoot this to make sure whatever caused this won't happen again?





P.S. The ONLY thing I can remember right when the car stalled out was I was fiddling with the air conditioner.
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  #2  
Old June 18th, 2019, 01:30 AM
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There is no way all those things are bad. I would guess it is the pump or the relay (if it is a 14CUX EFI aka 94-95). Probably the silver relay. I keep spares in the truck. Easy way to figure it out is to swap the two and if you hear the pump run you know it’s the relay and you can jump the relay with a wire if you don’t have a spare.
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  #3  
Old June 18th, 2019, 01:31 AM
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And on the odd chance it was some sort of total system failure, it was probably caused by a bad voltage regulator in the alternator.
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  #4  
Old June 18th, 2019, 06:26 AM
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Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
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Agree with Ron. Chances that it is all those is very small. That is to say that they all died simultaneously. Do D90s of this vintage have the fusible links like Range Rover Classic? If one of those let go it would stop the electrons dead in their tracks. I've had this happen a few times and it was very mysterious the first time.
Solution is to unwrap the wiring harness and jumper the bad link. Sometimes it melts other wires around it and makes the repair more of a challenge. All the fusible links get ganged together on the battery end so you have to undo the whole mess, clean it up, and then recrimp the wires back, wrap it and tuck it all away.
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1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88
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  #5  
Old June 18th, 2019, 06:37 AM
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I 2nd and 3rd these guys. The pump IME doesn’t go all at once. You typically get some temp stalling and hiccups before the whole thing lets go. Again, IME.

If you’ve run out of fuel or run it to very low levels the pump can get hot and die early. I try not to let mine go below 1/4 tank anymore having learned the hard way.

Don’t advise using cheap knock off parts for things that can stop you in ur tracks. Go with reputable parts from reputable vendors and stock them ahead of time.
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  #6  
Old June 19th, 2019, 08:14 PM
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andre
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Thanks Gentleman. Oddly, they did all go at once, and with no warning.

That said, gas was low and ran low a few times over the past weeks.

I'll look into the altenator solution, was fiddling about at that side last week. IF in the unlikely event that was the case, any suggestions on how to trouble shoot that?

thanks
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  #7  
Old June 19th, 2019, 10:18 PM
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Craig
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I dunno if I’m dumb or what ... but my first port of call on an electrical issue with these shitty English trucks is always cleaning and re-securing grounds...all of them
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  #8  
Old June 20th, 2019, 01:35 AM
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As far as trouble shooting the alternator, the sign is voltage spikes above 15v. This used to be really annoying to track down because there is no voltage gauge on a D90, just a low voltage battery light, so basically you would sit there and rev the engine with it on a multimeter or find some way to jerry rig the multimeter to watch it while driving. Of course, it would never do it while you were trying to find the issue, and then when you replaced the alternator (usually a reman which was recently installed), miraculously everything was fixed. If you were lucky, they had an internal short and would drain the battery.

Now just buy the little cigarette lighter voltage gauge thing they sell on amazon and watch that for spikes.

I am NOT saying this is your issue, but something to investigate for sure if you have continuing problems.
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  #9  
Old June 20th, 2019, 04:27 AM
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Chris B
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Voltage spiking based on my experience is a sign the alternator is going bad.
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  #10  
Old June 20th, 2019, 03:25 PM
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andre
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Thanks gents.... So I stated by replacing the following:

Rotor
Distributor Cap
Pump Relay
Gas Pump


Everything seemed to check out, strong spark, good fuel pressure, etc...

Rough cold start though, had to give it a little gas to start (which I think was what I always did, since I've never anything but old cars the 95' d90 being my youngest car...ever...)

Starting up fine with a warm engine and running fine once started... Drove a few miles and stalled.... Waited a few minutes started up, fine ... But stalled again... Made it to a parking lot and waiting for a tow (again)...

In the lot, can start the car, but it stalls after idling for a few minutes ...

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  #11  
Old June 20th, 2019, 04:03 PM
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andre
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Just wanted to add.... I have had a history of starting problems when it's wet out ... I don't know if that makes and light bulbs light up on this issue.

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  #12  
Old June 24th, 2019, 09:55 AM
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andre
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It's beginning to look like frayed wiring arc'ing in wet conditions.

Around coil/modulator.

Fingers crossed.

Coil modulator are relocated by the driverside wing (lh drive/Nas)

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  #13  
Old June 24th, 2019, 10:29 AM
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What often happens is the white with black tracer wire that supplies the timing pulses to the ECU gets very brittle and the vibration causes the wire to break off the terminal. Actually all the wires around the coil tend to be this way. Sometimes you have to cut back the insulation to expose the wire and crimp on a new terminal. Use adhesive-lined marine grade tinned copper terminals and then you'll be sure it won't happen again.
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Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88
1965 2A 88
1971 RRC
1989 RRC


All my troubles are Rover
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  #14  
Old June 26th, 2019, 11:46 PM
User Name
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Iíve replaced all these wires with much better quality. The starting and stalling can certainly come from the wires between the coil and the distributor being bad. Happened to me.

Had to replace the distributor, coil, etc... before I realized the wires were bad. Physically, they had hairline cracks in some spots, very hard to see. After I cut the sheathing I saw the copper wires were black in some areas.

The wires in these trucks are low grade.


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  #15  
Old July 4th, 2019, 05:05 PM
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Ewan F
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I had similar on my 97 NAS, (4.0 EFI) after much fettling and $ it turned out to be the fuel pump relay. New one installed, not a problem since.
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  #16  
Old July 4th, 2019, 05:15 PM
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Barry O'Mahony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User Name View Post
The wires in these trucks are low grade.
And 24 years old.
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  #17  
Old July 10th, 2019, 02:28 PM
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andre
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Yeah, concluding it was the wire insulation cracked or coming off.

I wrapped electrical tape around them individually, and now also ran them through some spliced wire tubing. Seems to have worked (after like above spent all the money on new coil/spark wires/cap/rotor...and a few rows)



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  #18  
Old July 13th, 2019, 11:37 PM
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Check the fuse for the fuel pump. It may not be blown but it may be partially melted. Also, check the wiring directly behind the fuel pump fuse, I've seen it frayed and damaged from water creeping towards the fuse.

Where did you buy the 4.6 from? I had a major issue with one I got from Atlantic British once; they had to send me a new one and paid to have the old one removed and the new one installed.
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  #19  
Old July 20th, 2019, 07:43 AM
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andre
95' D90
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Thanks for the hints... The 4.6 was in the car when I bought it. The 4.6 was installed by East Coast Rovers, I could not tell you where they obtained it.

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