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-   -   Prop shaft removal oops (http://www.defendersource.com/forum/f6/prop-shaft-removal-oops-35933.html)

Broncoduecer February 18th, 2012 02:45 PM

Prop shaft removal oops
 
So how important is the marking of the prop shaft? I didnt think to do that at all. But looking on the RAVE cd for the u joints I got the oh $hits when I saw that you are supposed to mark them.

Front I can remember where because I had hit the hut with a torch. and i can tell where i did that.

Rear not so much.

Those nuts were on there crazy hard. Parking brake made a good assist though. But not sure if that was the optimal solution. I cant imagine my ability to apply toruqe is anything near that weight of a vehicle.

Also there was a table spoon or 2 of gear oil that came out of the flange when it was seperated from the front output on the transfer box. Any thoughts there?

Thanks.
Pete

Red90 February 18th, 2012 04:32 PM

Shouldn't matter on prop shaft placement. I assume you have not taken the splines apart.

Are you saying there was oil behind the u-joint flange? If so, make sure the t. case flange nut is tight. If it is tight, then remove and replace the felt seal that is behind the washer.

Broncoduecer February 18th, 2012 05:03 PM

Yea there was oil behind the flange. I will take a look and see if its tight. Thanks!

Antichrist February 19th, 2012 01:51 PM

I'm not clear on what you didn't mark. The propshaft in relation to the output and input flanges? Or the relation of the flange yokes to the shaft yokes?
If the former I wouldn't worry about it. I've never understood them saying to mark them.
If the latter, there's a good chance you'll need to get the shaft balanced.

Broncoduecer February 19th, 2012 02:00 PM

It was in relation to the output and input flanges. I've been able to keep the yokes as they were.

I can't think why it would make a difference on the input and output flanges.

Thanks!

chris snell February 19th, 2012 02:16 PM

I have never marked my prop shafts and I've never had a problem. Some aftermarket shafts, like the old GBR models, had a seperate adapter that was marked and aligned with a mark on the shaft. I believe this is because the two-piece assembly was balanced together and you need to maintain the orientation to maintain the balance.

I always use Snap-On Flank Drive wrenches to remove the nuts. The Flank Drive Plus open end is the ticket to get the nut loose without rounding it off. I have two SOEX18 wrenches for this purpose. A ratcheting box end wrench would be useful to quickly remove the nut once it's loosened; I need to pick up a SOEXR18 from the Snap-On guy when I see him.

Broncoduecer March 4th, 2012 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red90 (Post 331228)
Shouldn't matter on prop shaft placement. I assume you have not taken the splines apart.

Are you saying there was oil behind the u-joint flange? If so, make sure the t. case flange nut is tight. If it is tight, then remove and replace the felt seal that is behind the washer.

Whats the best way to remove and reinstall said nut? Rave cd says 120ft-lb so that has to be a chore to remove and to get torqued back up. Park brake trick ? I'm wondering what to use as leverage to get it off and on.

Pete

Viton March 4th, 2012 10:45 PM

If you have pulled the slip joint apart on the drive shafts, the yokes on each end of the shaft do have a "timing" aspect to them in relationship to one-another. The service manual shows this sequence. I believe the front is about a 1/4 turn out of sequence end for end. The rear, I think is the same, end for end.

The balancing of the shaft is another issue.

Antichrist March 5th, 2012 05:44 AM

For torquing I use a wrecking bar wedged between two adjacent bolts and the ground or chassis.

junkyddog11 March 5th, 2012 06:35 AM

To hold the output flange I prefer a piece of heavy steel (1/4" x 2" x 24") with 2 of the 4 holes for the drive shaft drilled in it. then you can just bolt it on and not have to worry about things flying and or damage to the bolts.

Broncoduecer March 5th, 2012 09:13 AM

Thanks for the tips guys. I have some good options to try now. I knew there were some good ideas out there.

J. Andrew March 5th, 2012 10:25 AM

So is using the parking brake a bad idea for some reason? Seems like if it can keep thousands of pounds of truck from rolling down a hill it can handle 120 ft lbs no?

Broncoduecer March 11th, 2012 06:49 PM

So the nut was barely on. That would be why it was leaking I suppose. I put some nuts on the bolts and used the pry bar trick. Did the job just fine. Thanks Tom for the tip. I ended up getting a whole kit so I put in a new seal and got a new flange, lock nut, and felt washer.

I was also replacing the shocks this weekend. Rears were super easy to do, and super shot, so good thing I was replacing them. Just about had the first of the front ones done, but while tightening the nuts on the retained ring -SNAP- annnnnnnd F word. So I ordered up some new rings. They looked to be fine, I soaked them in PB for a few days and they came off super easy. It wasnt getting tight and it just snapped.

So looks like I will be dropping the axle anyways. So I think front shock number 2 will just get slipped out and not screw with the other ring.

Red90 March 11th, 2012 08:31 PM

Parking brake is fine. The engine puts a solid 2000 lb-ft plus on those shafts.... 120 ft-lb is nothing.

Manimal July 22nd, 2012 09:40 PM

I got my new front and rear prop shaft this weekend. One of the U-joint cups on the front shaft arrived damaged so I decided to replace all of them with a set of heavy duty U-joints. It didn't go so well. Despite banging on the front output flange yoke like rabid crack monkey I was unable to remove the last two cups from the yoke. Since I don't have a vice I figured I'd just take it in before I destroy it completely. Is it structurally bad for the yolk to have hammer marks on it? Should I replace it?

Balancing was also mentioned here. How is that done? Should I be concerned with this when replacing the prop shafts?

Antichrist July 23rd, 2012 05:55 AM

Instead of beating the crap out of it, why didn't you return it? I don't think I'd accept a new propshaft that was damaged.
In any case, a few hammer marks won't hurt it, depending one where they are. If you deformed the yoke so the cups won't go in, or come out, then yeah, that's not good.
A new propshaft should already be balanced.Provided you keep the yoke oriented the same way to the shaft (mark it with a center punch before removal) you should be fine.

Manimal July 23rd, 2012 09:24 AM

Return shipping to the UK will probably be more than what I paid for the damn thing. That said I am awaiting a response to hear what they'll offer.

I was just trying to follow the workshop manual instructions when I realized that a vice would be very helpful in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antichrist
Instead of beating the crap out of it, why didn't you return it? I don't think I'd accept a new propshaft that was damaged.
In any case, a few hammer marks won't hurt it, depending one where they are. If you deformed the yoke so the cups won't go in, or come out, then yeah, that's not good.
A new propshaft should already be balanced.Provided you keep the yoke oriented the same way to the shaft (mark it with a center punch before removal) you should be fine.


sonoronos July 23rd, 2012 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manimal (Post 361756)
Is it structurally bad for the yolk to have hammer marks on it?

You have essentially cold worked the yoke. Cold working increases tensile and yield strength. It decreases the total amount of deformation before tensile failure.

o2batsea July 23rd, 2012 11:55 AM

If memory serves, one would want to remove the shaft side cups first before the yoke side. In this way, you don't really need a vise. Use an old socket of the approximate diameter of the inside of the cup bore, and knock the cup out from the opposite side, then flip and repeat.
With the yoke off the shaft, you should be able to knock the cups out by the same method as above. You could use a large socket on a concrete floor and whack downward. A little sporty to try to hang on to all that mess and still get the hammer on the proper target, but do-able. No need to hit the shaft or yoke under any circumstance, vise or no vise.

Ren Ching July 23rd, 2012 12:24 PM

Don't worry about the hammer marks. Though, you should not have to hit the u joint too hard to get the cups moving. If you damaged the bore that the cup goes into, you can get away with a little judicious filing as long as it is just at one end of the bore. BTDT.

My gut feeling is that lots of bad things will happen in your drivetrain before the potentially decreased performance of those yokes becomes a factor.

Using a hammer to get the u joints apart actually works quite well and reduces the odds of one of the cups going diagonal and really ruining the bore. Doesn't much help with getting them in though...

And its a yoke, not a yolk. Yolks are yellow and usually appear on breakfast plates. That is really the best way to tell the difference. :)




Quote:

Originally Posted by Manimal (Post 361756)
Is it structurally bad for the yolk to have hammer marks on it? Should I replace it?



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