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-   -   O.K so my update on the air cleaner question flew like a lead zepplin (http://www.defendersource.com/forum/f6/o-k-so-my-update-on-the-air-cleaner-question-flew-like-a-lead-zepplin-15423.html)

CDeWan April 29th, 2008 07:55 PM

O.K so my update on the air cleaner question flew like a lead zepplin
 
Since it didn't fly the first time, consider the following in an english accent - it works for Les at Rovers North :) (Les if you read this....upmost respect).
1. Since I am more in a desert climate I decided to remove the air cleaner cover to get more air flow into the intake? Anyone see a problems yet?
2. Has anyone tried successfully I hope to go with placing the aircleaner closer to the wing vent or know of a kit (since I am lazy) that already has the bits and bobbles.

Result is trying to get more mpg out of a 3.9L and am thinking colder air would help a little.

rmuller April 29th, 2008 08:34 PM

What about a snorkel with a precleaner? Bring it up to the roof line so you avoid a lot of the dust, and the dust that gets to it, gets a shot through the precleaner before it hits the regular filter.

CDeWan April 29th, 2008 08:53 PM

hmm.... not a bad idea, do those kits relocate the Mass Air Sensor (or AMM). Thank you.

JimC April 29th, 2008 10:47 PM

A precleaner isnt going to help your fuel milage, you can't use it in lieu of the air filter. I totally don't follow the desert-climate-remove-cover-increase-flow theory. You're sucking the same amount of air through a larger opening.

Not familiar with cold-air-induction for a defender, but perhaps you might have some luck with a discovery air filter box and some piping if you simply want to try and relocate the intake for a colder air charge.

Buckon37s April 29th, 2008 11:49 PM

You do all those little tricks and 2hp would be a victory. Probably less.

CDeWan April 30th, 2008 12:01 AM

Jim,
o.k so precleaner is rulled out. money saved. Thank you good advice.

The same volume of air through a larger whole will increase the efficiency (less drag) on the intake stroke of a 4 cycle engine, thus using less HP to fill the cylinder -minor, gains in efficiency. Desert climate comment means rain or water is much less of an external factor in my decision being in San Diego. Due to the fact that the ambient air temperature is hotter and dryer the compounding effect of the ambient outside temperature in the summer with the heat coming off the engine affecting the air temperature going into the engine from the air cleaner located in the back of the engine compartment leads to a less efficient power stroke of the motor hot outside + hot inside air.

What I am looking to pick other D-90 owners brains "has anyone moved their air cleaner or air cleaner box close to the wing vent (or other external opening) in order to increase the effieciency of the intake stroke to obtain the best possible flow into the throttle body.



Thank you for the info on the discovery box, I will take a look at its demensions next time I am in the junkyard.

Buckon37s April 30th, 2008 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDeWan
Jim,
o.k so precleaner is rulled out. money saved. Thank you good advice.

The same volume of air through a larger whole will increase the efficiency (less drag) on the intake stroke of a 4 cycle engine, thus using less HP to fill the cylinder -minor, gains in efficiency. Desert climate comment means rain or water is much less of an external factor in my decision being in San Diego. Due to the fact that the ambient air temperature is hotter and dryer the compounding effect of the ambient outside temperature in the summer with the heat coming off the engine affecting the air temperature going into the engine from the air cleaner located in the back of the engine compartment leads to a less efficient power stroke of the motor hot outside + hot inside air.

What I am looking to pick other D-90 owners brains "has anyone moved their air cleaner or air cleaner box close to the wing vent (or other external opening) in order to increase the effieciency of the intake stroke to obtain the best possible flow into the throttle body.



Thank you for the info on the discovery box, I will take a look at its demensions next time I am in the junkyard.

We all know what your trying to do. It's been tried. What I am saying is it will not do anything for you. It's waisted time. If you want actual gains in HP you need to look elswhere. If you want a neato project, then knock yourself out.

CDeWan April 30th, 2008 03:03 AM

Gains in HP is not really my objective, and my main objective running cooler with an aluminum block engine in a hotter environment is more of my push. Hopefully I will hear from someone who has tried and has picture or something rather than shooting down my nice pretty balloon. Maybe my head won't hurt so bad after I knock myself silly.

Eric_S April 30th, 2008 08:42 AM

Give these guys a call. http://www.ramairbox.com/
They make ram air intakes for muscle cars and hot rods. They should be able to help you design something.

I seen lots of debates on where the best place to mount the opening for an intake to get the best ram effect and the consensus is the front of the vehicle is the best place ('68-'69 Oldsmobiles had scoops mounted under the font bumper). I've seen people post on other web-site (take this info with a gain of salt) that having the intake on the hood ('70-'72 Oldsmobile set up, similar to where the wing intake on a D90 is) there is actually negative pressure there.
Having the intake low on the front of the car isn't a good idea in a dusty environment. You'll be sucking in too much dust. That's where a snorkel will help out but there are too many twists and turns in that set up to see any HP gain.

Good luck and keep us posted.

evilfij April 30th, 2008 09:40 AM

There is something called the "air force one" which I believe was made for D-90s. Basically get a KN cone filter and bolt it to the MAF with a shorter hose.

Ron

PS not great for wading through streams

dmarchand April 30th, 2008 10:14 AM

Rover Accessories used to sell that setup though I don't see it on their site any longer.

LenB April 30th, 2008 10:36 AM

To reduce the amount of dust getting to my K&N air filter inside my air cleaner canister I installed a Mantec raised air intake. It was originally designed and used for desert use (Although it is commonly called a snorkel it is NOT for wading through rivers or streams - many people do buy and use them for that reason). The raised air intake draws air from outside the vehicle at ambiant air temps and directs it directly to the air cleaner canister. As soon as I made this change I noticed my oil stays alot cleaner. Even though I regularly cleaned my K&N I guess dirt was still making its way into my motor / oil. The raised air intake really does make a difference in how clean your oil stays. I found that the new intake neither hurts nor help measureable gas mileage. The best way to save on gas is to remove any lead that my be hiding in the sole of your right shoe.

GYM April 30th, 2008 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric_S
...having the intake on the hood ('70-'72 Oldsmobile set up, similar to where the wing intake on a D90 is) there is actually negative pressure there.

Exactly. The issue with the muscle car era hood mounted forward facing scoop openings is that they were not high enough to grab undisturbed air flow. Look at any modern day NHRA Pro Stocker. The air box opening is, what, maybe 9 to 12 inches above the hood line?

(Probably not a good look for a D...)

Eric Siepmann April 30th, 2008 11:44 AM

Maybe I am missing something here, but why not just get an oil cooler? Beat hacking up the intact for marginal gains and it'll be much more effective than moving the filter 2 inches or so...

Hans April 30th, 2008 01:00 PM

I think I know what he's getting at...... he is trying to avoid sucking the hotter than hell underhood air into his engine. Something I've considered a lot about how to do, but could never come up with a setup I liked enough to start making changes underhood.

Another issue is that if you are trying to get cleaner air into the engine, then don't use a K&N filter. Every test I've ever seen on the things proves that they do flow more air, but also allow a lot more stuff to pass through the filter. When I get around to a new engine, I'm going back to the paper filters to protect it.

-Hans

Eric_S April 30th, 2008 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originaly posted by Hans
....think I know what he's getting at...... he is trying to avoid sucking the hotter than hell underhood air into his engine...
That's my understanding of his question too.
But some places are better than others to mount an intake with respect to weather the air will be forced into the intake tubing or if the engine will have to overcome negative pressure. And he's also worried about dust too. That pretty much limits him to "raised air intake" (I miss-spoke when I called it a snorkel earlier, thanks for correcting me Len :) ).

CDeWan April 30th, 2008 05:27 PM

Guys...... this is exactly the discussion I was looking for and it is very much appreciated and there is definitely food for thought especially about the negative air pressure on the wing...did not think of that.
Also, the I like the oil cooler suggestion to as I have the fitting for the LT85 trasmission but not the lines and the cooler. Can I grab any of these from a Diso or a classic? The reason I ask is that these vehicles are now coming through the pick your part junkyards which means they parts are at a bargain prices. I picked up the 4.2 ECU for $40 the other day. and would be happy to keep my eyes open for stuff.
And once again - Thank you guys for your input. I appreciate a forum that fosters new (or revisits old) ideas with uplifting suggestions rather than "no it can be done attitudes"

Hans April 30th, 2008 06:48 PM

I have wondered from time to time, if just punching some louvers in the hood close to the windshied would be sufficient. That is a high pressure area on most cars (I haven't tested on a D90 to confirm).... so it would act like a cowl induction possibly and force some cold air down into the engine compartment right on top of the intake.

Then again, it would necessitate a full hood repaint, and I worry about water dripping down in that area.

-Hans

JimC May 1st, 2008 02:20 AM

I've always thought the hood was a high-pressure area, but I can't say why I know this or where I found it out. I'm sure its dependent on the aerodynamics of a particular shape, but it would be nice to find out. I think the pro street cars and such run huge scoops for engine clearance, not air flow.

pendy May 1st, 2008 03:48 AM

Getting rid of the cats under the hood really cuts down on under hood temps-I'm just saying here. At 280,000 miles you are due a little extra emissions. That car is saving itself being replaced close to three times now. Think about it! Our vehicles are the last of their kind. Modular to stay alive indefinitely. If Ta ta can keep it going.

Last of their kind worth driving IMO


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