Hid xenon conversion kit (full kit) - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old September 18th, 2013, 07:47 PM
East Coast Defender
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Hid xenon conversion kit (full kit)

Hi All,

We have recently made up some of these kits in the UK and fitted to our trucks.

They look and perform absolutely superb and represent an excellent purchase. Everything is included in the kits, ready for you to simply plug and play. Our electrics man Elliot has wired everything up ready to go.

Included are instructions for fitting too.

Just listed on eBay, we have 10 available at the moment but are making up a few sets a week.

Special price for Defender Source members $299, first one sells for $250 to get the ball rolling. Check out the ad below and PM for details.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171130153934...witem=&vxp=mtr

Thanks,

Tom - East Coast Defender
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  #2  
Old September 18th, 2013, 08:37 PM
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Tom Rowe
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It doesn't appear that those light are legal for sale, or use, in the US.
As best as I can tell from your ebay ad they are HC/R lenses, which are for Halogen bulbs. DC/R lenses are for xenon bulbs. Or are they maybe the wrong photos?
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  #3  
Old September 18th, 2013, 09:04 PM
East Coast Defender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antichrist View Post
It doesn't appear that those light are legal for sale, or use, in the US.
As best as I can tell from your ebay ad they are HC/R lenses, which are for Halogen bulbs. DC/R lenses are for xenon bulbs. Or are they maybe the wrong photos?
They are legal as the components can be found for sale out here, they are just quite a bit more expensive. The only thing about legality that concerned me is the fact they are not auto leveling, but manual. However after speaking to a DOT agent it seems that if the vehicle never had auto leveling then it is not a requirement to fit them aftermarket.

I will get some more details over to you tomorrow after I speak to our guys in the UK.

Thanks,

Tom

------ Follow up post added September 18th, 2013 09:11 PM ------

[QUOTE=Tomhumble;468597]They are legal as the components can be found for sale out here, they are just quite a bit more expensive. The only thing about legality that concerned me is the fact they are not auto leveling, but manual. However after speaking to a DOT agent it seems that if the vehicle never had auto leveling then it is not a requirement to fit them aftermarket.

I willget some more details over to you tomorrow after I speak to our guys in the UK.

Thanks,

Tom[

Forgot to add that if it turns out it requires a DCR after I double check with our DOT guy we can swap that in no problem

Regards,

Tom
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  #4  
Old September 19th, 2013, 05:04 AM
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Tom Rowe
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The component thing trips up a lot of people, thinking if the individual components are legal then the the assembled whole is legal, which isn't the case.
The only legal retrofits are ones that a manufacturer could have fitted from the factory, regardless if they were actually available at the time. An HID bulb behind an HC/R lens wouldn't have met the requirements of FMVSS 108 so wouldn't have been permitted. Halogen and HID bulbs have a different light shape so require different lenses, among other things.
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Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
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62 88 Regular
67 109 6cyl NADA x2
74 Lightweight - The Antichrist
95 DI 5-speed
95 D90 5-speed
97 D1 Automatic
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  #5  
Old September 19th, 2013, 10:57 AM
East Coast Defender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antichrist View Post
The component thing trips up a lot of people, thinking if the individual components are legal then the the assembled whole is legal, which isn't the case.
The only legal retrofits are ones that a manufacturer could have fitted from the factory, regardless if they were actually available at the time. An HID bulb behind an HC/R lens wouldn't have met the requirements of FMVSS 108 so wouldn't have been permitted. Halogen and HID bulbs have a different light shape so require different lenses, among other things.
I think we will leave it up to people to decide if they want to use them, I think there is a whole 5 page thread on what is legal or not regarding Defenders

They perform very well indeed, are anti glare and adjustable. At worst case they are an awesome off road addition. I will be the Guinea Pig on this one, if I get pulled over, I will post a pic

Thanks,

Tom
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  #6  
Old September 19th, 2013, 11:17 AM
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It wouldn't sound so shady if you just labeled them as "for off road use" and let the customer make the decision to use them on road.

The litmus test for this kind of thing is usually "If I get in an accident using these headlights on public roads could I get in trouble?".

I would think as a business owner you would want to limit your liability and not just flippantly "leave it up to the people".

That said, with the development of LED vehicle lighting HID seems a bit dated.
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  #7  
Old September 19th, 2013, 11:41 AM
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Do you have them in 4300k option?
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  #8  
Old September 19th, 2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
It wouldn't sound so shady if you just labeled them as "for off road use" and let the customer make the decision to use them on road.

The litmus test for this kind of thing is usually "If I get in an accident using these headlights on public roads could I get in trouble?".

I would think as a business owner you would want to limit your liability and not just flippantly "leave it up to the people".

That said, with the development of LED vehicle lighting HID seems a bit dated.

I think you might be blowing this a bit out of proportion here.

If you don't want them, don't buy them, as I have said to those who have messaged me I am more than happy for people to take them, trial them and if they are not 100% happy, send them back for a refund.

As a business owner I have a hard enough time trying to fight off the bad reputation many British people before have carved out, even worse that I am in Florida, which seems to have been the breeding ground. I am just trying to offer out everything we have going. Certainly not here to be 'shady' as you put it.

HID is behind LED you are correct, but these kits we have put together are a very simple fit, at a very good price. LED headlights not so much

Thanks,

Tom

------ Follow up post added September 19th, 2013 11:55 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
Do you have them in 4300k option?
I believe we have 4000k and 5000k in stock. I can check for the 4300k if you would like? The 4000k has an excellent light and range, it is not really blue if that is what you want to avoid.

Tom
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  #9  
Old September 19th, 2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomhumble View Post
I think we will leave it up to people to decide if they want to use them, I think there is a whole 5 page thread on what is legal or not regarding Defenders
It really has nothing to do with Defenders at all. FMVSS 108 never mentions them, all it does is define lighting requirements that apply to all vehicles.

Yes, people can decide for themselves, but they should have the facts to make an informed choice. Although this is a choice that directly affects other drivers.

As a business owner I would think you'd want to know also, since the NHTSA has made a number of businesses selling HID retrofit kits to issue a recall and provide a no cost solution to all the customers. So it could potentially get expensive for you. Not to mention fines they can levy.
If you want to know for sure, contact Rae Tyson at NHTSA (not sure if he still works there), or email your state NHTSA rep, who will put you in contact with their Office of Chief Counsel in DC. At least the one here in GA was that helpful and I had a fairly extensive conversation with them several years ago.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsa/whatis/regions/faqs.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
It wouldn't sound so shady if you just labeled them as "for off road use" and let the customer make the decision to use them on road.
For headlights, "for off-road use only" is meaningless as the NHTSA doesn't recognize it. A number of companies have tried that dodge and found out it doesn't work.
FWIW, I don't think Tom is trying to be shady. There's a tremendous amount of confusion about what's legal in lighting. Many people even think it's state dependent. IMO labeling them "for off-road use only" would be shady.

The only solution, if you really want HID's, is a legal setup, which are available for vehicles with 7" round headlights, an advantage Series, Defenders and RRC's have over other Land Rovers from the years before HID was available from the factory.
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Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
in places even more inaccessible.

62 88 Regular
67 109 6cyl NADA x2
74 Lightweight - The Antichrist
95 DI 5-speed
95 D90 5-speed
97 D1 Automatic
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  #10  
Old September 19th, 2013, 12:56 PM
East Coast Defender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antichrist View Post
It really has nothing to do with Defenders at all. FMVSS 108 never mentions them, all it does is define lighting requirements that apply to all vehicles.

Yes, people can decide for themselves, but they should have the facts to make an informed choice. Although this is a choice that directly affects other drivers.

As a business owner I would think you'd want to know also, since the NHTSA has made a number of businesses selling HID retrofit kits to issue a recall and provide a no cost solution to all the customers. So it could potentially get expensive for you. Not to mention fines they can levy.
If you want to know for sure, contact Rae Tyson at NHTSA (not sure if he still works there), or email your state NHTSA rep, who will put you in contact with their Office of Chief Counsel in DC. At least the one here in GA was that helpful and I had a fairly extensive conversation with them several years ago.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsa/whatis/regions/faqs.html

For headlights, "for off-road use only" is meaningless as the NHTSA doesn't recognize it. A number of companies have tried that dodge and found out it doesn't work.
FWIW, I don't think Tom is trying to be shady. There's a tremendous amount of confusion about what's legal in lighting. Many people even think it's state dependent. IMO labeling them "for off-road use only" would be shady.

The only solution, if you really want HID's, is a legal setup, which are available for vehicles with 7" round headlights, an advantage Series, Defenders and RRC's have over other Land Rovers from the years before HID was available from the factory.
Thanks Tom,

As you say certainly not trying to be shady...I will give as much info to anyone as I possibly can. Also completely stand by that if people want to try them, I am more than happy to refund. They just look really, really good and perform very well.

Back in the UK many companies sell these kits and print in the smallest writing that you cannot even read somewhere on the box 'for off road use only', I hate that, just thought it would be easy for people to make up their own minds. Land Rover owners tend to be a pretty switched on group from experience.

Thanks too for the advice and contact, always very helpful

Tom
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  #11  
Old September 19th, 2013, 01:20 PM
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I saw these lights (or very similar, as the VIPHID ballast packs were the same) on a board member's truck and were amazed how bright they were. Nothing LED that I have seen comes close.
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Old September 19th, 2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
I saw these lights (or very similar, as the VIPHID ballast packs were the same) on a board member's truck and were amazed how bright they were. Nothing LED that I have seen comes close.
Yup, LEDs are nice on draw but don't have a lot of length in beam. HIDs are a lot nicer and safer for driving lights. LEDs are nice for slow moving off road type stuff.
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  #13  
Old September 19th, 2013, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
HIDs are a lot nicer and safer for driving lights.
Not in these lenses. As far as I'm concerned he shouldn't even be allowed to sell them on this board they're so dangerous.
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  #14  
Old September 19th, 2013, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cellulararrest View Post
Not in these lenses. As far as I'm concerned he shouldn't even be allowed to sell them on this board they're so dangerous.
I don't know how many "bro-trucks" we have around here with hid "conversions" but it's really freakin' annoying. It makes me want a roof rack and a bunch of lights I can turn on when I'm blinded by one. The worst offenders are the trucks lifted extra high with hid conversions in their fog lights too.
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  #15  
Old September 19th, 2013, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cellulararrest View Post
Not in these lenses. As far as I'm concerned he shouldn't even be allowed to sell them on this board they're so dangerous.
Bit of an over-reaction there...

Maybe I should be deported too??

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  #16  
Old September 19th, 2013, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ini88 View Post
Yup, LEDs are nice on draw but don't have a lot of length in beam. HIDs are a lot nicer and safer for driving lights. LEDs are nice for slow moving off road type stuff.
I have to disagree with you here. The biggest thing that contributes to light 'throw' from an LED is reflector shape, and most of the Chinese stuff you see out there just doesn't have the time spent on design to make them worth a damn. Hop in a truck with a Baja Designs or Rigid light bar and you'll sing a different tune. I was thoroughly impressed by the JW Speaker LED headlights in one of my customer's trucks the other day, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cellulararrest View Post
Not in these lenses. As far as I'm concerned he shouldn't even be allowed to sell them on this board they're so dangerous.
The one thing that will make these work slightly better than an HID in a conventional incandescent housing is the 'cap' over the bulb, which will reflect the light back into the lens and then out. You won't get a clean cutoff, but the glare will be significantly reduced and not everyone in oncoming traffic will hate you.
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