Feeler/Orders - VW TDI to R380 adapter "kit". Anyone? - Defender Source
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Old August 25th, 2013, 10:24 PM
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Feeler/Orders - VW TDI to R380 adapter "kit". Anyone?

I am in the final stages of the VW TDI to Rover R380 adapter.

Talking with the CNC shop about making a run and obviously the first one is stupid expensive.... Spreading it over 8-10 or even 5-6 would be hugely helpful to all. I already have a ton of time and expense in it.

It ends up being an adapter plate for the bellhousing and the stock rover flywheel is machined and a small crank adapter to hold the trans input shaft end/bushing.

I will need your flywheel for modification or at least as core to keep costs down.

If you boost the hell out of the TDI like I have (200hp/300tq) you'll need a stronger clutch - and want to be gentle on the trans. Ha ha.

This will be only the bellhousing and crank/flywheel adapter. No motor mounts, no exhaust, no other misc parts needed. Not YET anyway. I am working on that stuff. Also I am not 100% sure the rover starter will be happy about cranking the diesel so it may need a stronger one. "Should" be ok though with good proper cables and a rugged battery.

Looking like close to $1000 at this point for the adapter, but that was the shop's off the cuff for a handful of them. I am hoping to be able to offer a package with bolt in mounts for about that. So I will work on the machinist and see what we can do.

Interest? Not asking for deposits or anything. I'm close to that point but want to finalize mine and get it assembled to be sure there are NO issues first.

Oh - just thought of this after posting here, if this should be moved out of "for sale".... Please do so of course and sorry!
Cheers!
Doug
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  #2  
Old August 26th, 2013, 09:44 AM
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I would be a possible candidate!
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  #3  
Old August 26th, 2013, 11:38 AM
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Which VW tdi?
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Old August 26th, 2013, 02:51 PM
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1.9l.

Any 4 cyl gas or diesel actually from the 70's up to mid 2000's. all use the same bell housing and crank pattern. If I recall the newer TDI are different in a few ways.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:24 PM
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Interesting proposal. You can get good numbers from a VW TDI with just a reflash and nozzles iirc. A little less displacement than the rover TDI's but you could do this swap and actually have it be EPA legal since the motor was certified for use in the US, which would be nice for those living in states such as CA which have quite draconian emissions regulations.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:24 PM
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Out of interest, do you have any plans on finding a way to waterproof the timing case?
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:27 PM
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Oh, and to clarify, you are adapting to a V8 R380, not a TDI R380?
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:55 PM
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Yes v8 r380.

Yes it is legal do instal in any non-OBD2 vehicle as its a federally legal light duty passenger vehicle motor and is same or newer than the vehicle it's being installed into.

As for time case - certainly anything can be done - but no I had not. I don't make my trucks swim too much. Ha ha

That said it would be pretty easy to make them "tighter" for sure. The alternators are mounted 3/4 of the way toward the bottom as is the AC comp so really they are not suited in stock arrangement for major fording. Also anything from the early/mid 90's up is electronically run. They are well sealed in that respect - but unless you convert to a manual pump (easily done) you probably don't want to dunk it all the time. The true electronic TDI is smooth, quiet, very powerful and economical. If you're going to convert it to manual pump - just get a rover motor.

------ Follow up post added August 26th, 2013 04:00 PM ------

And by the way - mine has an ECU tune, larger transporter nozzles, the larger 11mm pump (comes on the auto trans equipped VW's from stock) and running a VNT 17/22 hybrid turbo. Custom intake manifold and larger intercooler with no EGR blockages. With a full 2.5 exhaust and larger cat converter it is rated at about 200hp/305tq. (Crank) with a very smooth power band starting with gobs of torque at 1200rpm and stays steady all the way through 4500.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:31 PM
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A few thoughts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roving Beetle View Post
Yes v8 r380.
I know you have to crawl before you walk and then run, but since the v8 r380 shared the same pattern as the ZF auto, it would be and interesting down the road project to have a V8 torque converter rebuilt for the right stall speed and change the transmission governor to yield this setup with an automatic. The trick would be to machine the hub and match it all to a flex plate.

Since the VW TDI is short and tall, wonder if it would clear the top of the hood on the RR Classic.

Would you run the VW TDI ECU for the TDI manual? Thinking this would be the best choice.

Just made an offer on a 2004 Jetta TDI that broke the timing belt, so can't wait to get the Jetta running for one of our teenagers to drive.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roving Beetle View Post
1.9l.

Any 4 cyl gas or diesel actually from the 70's up to mid 2000's. all use the same bell housing and crank pattern. If I recall the newer TDI are different in a few ways.
Up the the ALH, BEW, or just AHU? Which version of the tranny's would it work for? I would love to pull the ALH out of my Jetta and throw it in my Series with a 5 speed but it can be hard to get ahold of the right R380. Does this company make any adapters to like the Toyota 5 speed tranny's, id much rather have the toyota 5 speed rather than R380.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:38 PM
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The auto adapter is easier and is already in the works. The TDI rpm range is not far off the rover v8 and it should work well as is with the ZF. The hp22 is a little weak for bigger power though. In 150hp/225 TQ range the power band is almost perfect for the gasser ZF as is.
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  #12  
Old August 26th, 2013, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I know you have to crawl before you walk and then run, but since the v8 r380 shared the same pattern as the ZF auto, it would be and interesting down the road project to have a V8 torque converter rebuilt for the right stall speed and change the transmission governor to yield this setup with an automatic. The trick would be to machine the hub and match it all to a flex plate.

Since the VW TDI is short and tall, wonder if it would clear the top of the hood on the RR Classic.

Would you run the VW TDI ECU for the TDI manual? Thinking this would be the best choice.

Just made an offer on a 2004 Jetta TDI that broke the timing belt, so can't wait to get the Jetta running for one of our teenagers to drive.
The automatics kill the fuel economy of the VW tdi's.

04 TDi has the BEW motor which is less ideal than the ALH TDI from the 98-03 MKIV platform in the beetles golfs and jettas. Just watch out with the broken timing belt as they are interference motors, so if the belt went when the motor was running, you are going to have to do more than just putting a belt on it and timing it.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 05:51 PM
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Toyota - contact Acme Adapters.

R380 V8 version is cheap and easy to find - here in the States anyway.

Mine is an ALH - I would have to check beyond ALH - but I think BEW may work ok too, but the crank end may be different.

------ Follow up post added August 26th, 2013 05:53 PM ------

And yes - the auto does kill mpg and fun a bit.

That's why I'm after a r380 adapter set up. The auto is easier and I could be done with that already if I had focused that direction.

Yes it should clear the RRC hood fine. Yes running the ALH TDI ECU with immobilizer deleted and custom tune by Malone Tuning in Canadialand.
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  #14  
Old August 26th, 2013, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roving Beetle View Post
Also anything from the early/mid 90's up is electronically run. They are well sealed in that respect - but unless you convert to a manual pump (easily done) you probably don't want to dunk it all the time.
Yah, I would not go off road without it sealed. They engines are a write off when the belt goes. The stock cover is wide open. I would be worried just with normal splashing. The cars they come in have the engines very well shielded from splashing water. I'm not wanting to be a killjoy. I think it is just something that should be looked at seriously. I suspect making a proper timing case and cover would not be very hard.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 08:29 PM
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Auto ZF that was behind a V8...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roving Beetle View Post
The auto adapter is easier and is already in the works. The TDI rpm range is not far off the rover v8 and it should work well as is with the ZF. The hp22 is a little weak for bigger power though. In 150hp/225 TQ range the power band is almost perfect for the gasser ZF as is.
Having a torque converter with the correct stall speed is critical as is the ggovernor.
Our experiences with the Isuzu 4JB1-T mated to a V8 style ZF was terrible so this is something you'll just have to try. Next we used a V8 torque converter that was rebuilt for a 300TDI conversion and it was better, but still not right as the stall speed was too low. So we had one of ours rebuilt for the correct stall speed and used the BMW diesel govenror in the V8 HP22 and the results were spot on.

I suspect you'll go through a similar process, only it sounds like your starting point is much closer to perfection than ours was 5 years ago.

Keep up the good work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90 View Post
The 04 TDi has the BEW motor which is less ideal than the ALH TDI from the 98-03 MKIV platform in the beetles golfs and jettas. Just watch out with the broken timing belt as they are interference motors, so if the belt went when the motor was running, you are going to have to do more than just putting a belt on it and timing it.
Fully expect to rebuild the head with new valves if it's not damaged, then we'll have to locate a head. Also hoping for no holes in the pistons, but we'll find out sooner than later.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 08:13 AM
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Any updates on your kit? Trying to decide what to do next in the diesel realm. ..

Thanks
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  #17  
Old September 27th, 2013, 09:20 AM
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How are you handling the starter? That is a big problem with VW conversions.
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Old September 27th, 2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roving Beetle View Post
Yes v8 r380.

Yes it is legal do instal in any non-OBD2 vehicle as its a federally legal light duty passenger vehicle motor and is same or newer than the vehicle it's being installed into.

As for time case - certainly anything can be done - but no I had not. I don't make my trucks swim too much. Ha ha

That said it would be pretty easy to make them "tighter" for sure. The alternators are mounted 3/4 of the way toward the bottom as is the AC comp so really they are not suited in stock arrangement for major fording. Also anything from the early/mid 90's up is electronically run. They are well sealed in that respect - but unless you convert to a manual pump (easily done) you probably don't want to dunk it all the time. The true electronic TDI is smooth, quiet, very powerful and economical. If you're going to convert it to manual pump - just get a rover motor.

------ Follow up post added August 26th, 2013 04:00 PM ------

And by the way - mine has an ECU tune, larger transporter nozzles, the larger 11mm pump (comes on the auto trans equipped VW's from stock) and running a VNT 17/22 hybrid turbo. Custom intake manifold and larger intercooler with no EGR blockages. With a full 2.5 exhaust and larger cat converter it is rated at about 200hp/305tq. (Crank) with a very smooth power band starting with gobs of torque at 1200rpm and stays steady all the way through 4500.
So have you installed a VW Tdi in a Defender?
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  #19  
Old September 27th, 2013, 11:13 AM
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Jim Hall in Denver installed one in his Series 88". I'll see if I can get some pictures.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:36 PM
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Hey Doug

Any update? I am anxiously awaiting any developments on this kit. I'm almost at the point where I have to make the decision with which diesel I'm going to install and really want to do a vw alh motor...thanks in advance
Frank
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