Originally Posted by Brewie212
I'm sure Matt is going to be the next one that vouches how I said I was going I copy the world and make a million bucks!
Sorry Brian you're right... but, I'll take what is being said back in to context.
We were all having a good time, shooting the shit over the flame and enjoying your firewater.
As we talked, you being a former jeep guy (no hard feelings, that's where I started as well) started asking the normal questions that all transplants do: "Whats this?, whats that?, who's this?, who's that?, etc...
Everything started off all well and fine. You had told us about the stuff you had built for your 90 and some of the past stuff you had built for Jeeps and whatnot....and hey, I'm impressed. You have better fabrication skills than me and I applaud that. And from my untrained eye, your work looks good. From that stand point, the questions from Mike and Joel are honest straight forward questions that usually (although dry in nature) are in the best interests of your trucks performance and the passenger's safety. It's best that you take note of them and understand where they are coming from.
So, as we go through this round robin Q&A session, you brought up the vendors that we all support; RTE, HLC Fab, Will Tillery, Joel, etc...
You asked us (Not Verbatim): "Who has the best stuff out there?"
Mike and I, (not sure where joel was...maybe in his tent?) mulled it over only for a few seconds to agree that Denny at HLC fab was probably building the most progressive, stoutest hardware that money can buy for the Land Rover community. We recommended that if you were looking for an accessory, that you look no further than HLC Fab.
Your response (Again, Not Verbatim): "Good, because my plan is to copy the best bumpers out there and put them in to production for sale."
So, with all this being said...I was drinking pretty hard that weekend. So MAYBE I took what you said the wrong way. Either way you look at it, that is what you said.
I like to think of the Land Rover community as a bit of a family, a very tight knit family. When you pass around the jar around the campfire, play fire stick, watch real families grow, and watch small shops grow into large busy respectable shops year after year, you become protective. I'm like the cousin that went off to performing arts college that nobody likes to talk about, but when you really get to know me; I'm not that bad. And as a member of this family, I take it very personally when one of my own is about to get cheated by anyone, not just some new guy.
Again, Brian I don't have a problem with you personally, I just didn't appreciate the comments and I don't like your business plan if you're still on board to carry out your fireside comments. I think you work is fine but, Denny spends a ton of time with customers and R&D for new designs to make the Rover world a better place. When you said what you said, the thought of it made my blood boil. I don't know if you felt it get cold around the fire but, it did. Mike and I shut our mouths like Trappist Monks.
If you didn't mean what you said, than just say you didn't. But you are a flat out liar in my eyes if you deny it. Blame it on the Alcohol.
Oh, and on the subject of Larry, a true story as told by Matt Hines:
Back before the fall of Rover Club House, my wife's mother took her P38 to have some simple diagnostic done on it over a weekend (and maybe an oil change). We dropped it off in the afternoon and we agreed to pick it up the next day. The next day when we picked it up, driving out of the parking lot the low fuel light came on. When we dropped it off there was 3/4 of a tank in there.
So not only did she get charged for the service, but she also had to put another $70 in the gas tank so Larry could go out on the town for the night or do whatever the fuck it is that Larry does.
Another good one: Larry sold another fellow Rover Owner a D2 with front a rear bumpers. Said D2 had just had headgaskets, seals, etc done to it and was ready to go. Homeboy came out of Virginia to Durham to buy the truck and didn't make it 15 miles before the truck overheated and broke down.
Larry washed his hands of it and accepted no responsibility. So after having the truck towed back to VA and having the headgaskets done by a reputable rover shop, this guy was out another ~$1600 for what he thought was a solid truck repaired by quality shop.
The truth about RTE is that it's changed hands more time than your whiskey bottle at Uwharrie and the foundations of that company that used to provide solid hardcore off road accessories for Land Rovers is long gone. Look at my bumper. Steve (I believe the second owner) built it. The powdercoating is holding strong, it doesn't flex, it doesn't need a thing and when I list it for sale (if I ever do), I will put in the advert that Steve built it, and that adds value. Hell, I bought some trailing arms that Bill built on short notice, and they are great...
We just always ask the same question at every event: Is RTE going to be around next year?
I'm not bashing you for working with Larry. I'm a big fan of using all sources available but, if that means losing a contact like Joel; I'd wash my hands of Larry before he strikes again.
I'll reiterate: The Land Rover Community is small. Sure, there are a few folks who don't like each other. Even Joel and I have had our differences. But, we've worked them out and I think it's for the best. Because in the end, if you start crossing people now; they'll never forget it and the Rover world is just too small for that.
Denny know's the truth and we're already starting to see it with you flat out copying the work of someone else.
With that being said: there are only so many ways you can build a panhard bar.
So either suck it up and admit that's what you said, or don't.
I've already formed my opinions fwiw.