Whats legal? Frame Swaps, Importing, etc - Page 8 - Defender Source
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  #141  
Old March 6th, 2008, 02:47 AM
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Can someone please expand on the concept of having a newer non-titled defender imported to the US on an "off-road use only" and "non-US national" exemption.

Hypothetically, what if you wanted to bring in a 1986 Defender 110 CSW and only use it off-road until 2011? After getting it across the border and waiting for the next three years, would you still be able to title and register it here in the states once the 25 year exclusion has kicked into effect?
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  #142  
Old March 6th, 2008, 06:09 AM
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It is simply not possible.

The NHTSA has this info:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...ng/Racing.html

And the EPA says this:


B. (3) Vehicle not Safe or Practical to Drive on Streets and Highways
An off road/recreational 2005 or earlier model year vehicle exclusion is based on the capability of the vehicle to safely and practically be driven on public roads. However, the EPA regulations for 2006 and later model year off road/recreational vehicles and engines must be met, effective January 1, 2006.

A racing or competition vehicle may not use the off road/recreational exclusion. A 2005 and earlier model year motorcycle with an engine of less than 50cc is not regulated, and may be imported without approval or Customs bond under EPA declaration code "U". Any 2006 or later model year motorcycle with an engine less that 50cc is subject to certification in accordance 86.447-2006. To be eligible for the 2005 and earlier model year off road/recreational vehicle exclusion, the vehicle or engine must meet at least one of the following three criteria:

1. It cannot exceed an ungoverned speed of 25 miles per hour; or

2. It lacks features customarily associated with safe and practical street or highway use; or

3. It exhibits features that make its use on a street or highway unsafe, impractical, or highly unlikely.

The deletion, removal or absence of features that can be readily added, is not sufficient grounds for this exclusion.

As of January 1, 2006, the importer must file with U.S. Customs, upon entry, an EPA Form 3520-21. For 2006 and later model year vehicles subject to certification, use box 1. For 2005 and earlier model year vehicles, you must use box 17 and attach proof that the vehicle was manufactured in 2005 or earlier and is a 2005 or earlier model and lacks safety or other features required for safe and practical street operation including evidence of inordinate size or weight preventing highway use.

EPA entry form 3520-1 will no longer be used for the importation of off road/recreational vehicles. However, a 2005 or earlier model year motorcycle with an engine of less than 50cc will still use form 3520-1, EPA declaration code "U".

B. (4) Racing Vehicle
Not all vehicles used in races are excluded from emissions compliance. A racing vehicle exclusion is based on the capability of the vehicle to safely and practically be driven on streets and highways. Written EPA approval must be obtained before clearance at Customs.

Once a racing vehicle is imported, it is a violation of the Clean Air Act to register or license it for street use, or to convert it into a motor vehicle, unless it is first covered by an applicable EPA certificate of conformity.
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  #143  
Old March 6th, 2008, 07:50 PM
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JimC,

Thanks for that explanation. Shouldn't anything older than an 87 fall under the 21 year exclusion on the 3250-1?
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  #144  
Old March 6th, 2008, 08:24 PM
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Epa is 21 years but DOT is 25.
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  #145  
Old March 6th, 2008, 09:19 PM
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Exactly, so maybe I'll go shopping for a 1986 Alpina turbo BMW - the car is easy to import, and the engine is now exempt.

Naw, I think I'll wait until the exchange rate isnt god-awful.
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  #146  
Old March 7th, 2008, 06:18 AM
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I'd have to go looking for an M1 procar to go vintage racing with.
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  #147  
Old May 4th, 2008, 08:52 AM
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so what's the latest?

basic questions:

is it legal to import a 1983 110 if you have the paper work of registration date and some mechanical paperwork like an engine replacement?

Is it preferable to have a rhd-lhd conversion done in the UK or the USA? my bet is the UK despite exchange rates, if so then having access to rhd models would open up the market more

Are there financing options for 25 year old vehicles or is it coming straight out of the bank account?
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  #148  
Old May 4th, 2008, 09:23 AM
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Nothing has changed.
If the engine has been swapped then the letter of the law is that it must be an epa approved engine. The 200 and 300 tdi engines were never approved so trying that is akin to playing roulette. Yes 83's with V5 document, and bill of sale can be imported (again the letter of the law is 25 years from the date of manufacture/not the date of first registration (I have been required to get a build letter from Gayden on one truck) The lhd conversion can be done in the Uk were the parts are more readily available however labor rates are much higher and the exchange rate is abismal right now.




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  #149  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland 110
Nothing has changed.
If the engine has been swapped then the letter of the law is that it must be an epa approved engine. The 200 and 300 tdi engines were never approved so trying that is akin to playing roulette. Yes 83's with V5 document, and bill of sale can be imported (again the letter of the law is 25 years from the date of manufacture/not the date of first registration (I have been required to get a build letter from Gayden on one truck) The lhd conversion can be done in the Uk were the parts are more readily available however labor rates are much higher and the exchange rate is abismal right now.




www.dividingcreekroverimports.com
True, People like pendyrover do RHD to LHD conversions, spares for DIY conversions are available.
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Land Rover Defender Specialist. - We ship worldwide.
We are a specialist in TDI re-power conversions, and Crate 'turn key' Land Rover TDI and TD5 engines and Transmissions.
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  #150  
Old August 6th, 2008, 12:25 PM
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D-90 Coversion.

Hello folks,
First time post on this forum.

With the question of legality. Can a 1995 D-90 be converted into a 110 and be registered as a 95 D 90? Looking at something on sale now and was not sure if New York laws would allow me to register the vehicle or if was legit. The person took a donor from UK and basically converted his D90. Will I have a problem in New York? Would someone please help me.

By the way the modified vehicle is a diesel, 300Tdi.

Thanks.
Dave.
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  #151  
Old August 6th, 2008, 01:16 PM
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Peter,

As far as whether a 90 can be converted to a 110, yes. In New York, you would most likely technically be required to have it inspected by the state (based on my recollection of when I lived there), but no one does this. It is basically the same thing as stretching a town car into a limo. As far as the 300Tdi, technically that would not be kosher, but if you are not subject to emissions inspection, you should be fine.

Ron
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  #152  
Old August 6th, 2008, 01:38 PM
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If you do have a problem with the Tdi and want to replace it with a v8, let me know.
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  #153  
Old August 6th, 2008, 03:59 PM
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Ron,

How is it inspected by the State? Can you explain that further?

So if I'm subjected to emissions, then the diesel would cause a problem? How so and why? Don't people have an option to go from Gas to Diesel ?

Jim, thanks, I'll let you know but diesel is what I'm after actually.
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  #154  
Old August 6th, 2008, 06:41 PM
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Not sure about NY, but NC gets an exclusion/exemption when going from gas to diesel. Also, pre '96 are exempt, as they only smog OBDII vehicles. Also, as Jim suggest above, the Tdi would easily cover the cost of a new motor swap, if you did have an issue, and have to convert to gas- something to ponder.
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  #155  
Old August 12th, 2008, 07:38 PM
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Question for the rover experts:

Is it true that we can import 25 year old defenders but we cannot put them on the road as vehicles anywhere in the 50 states because of EPA regulations?

Is this true in all states? And secondly I was told that these are still gray market vehicles and I can be a shit load of liability if I get into a car accident.
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  #156  
Old August 12th, 2008, 07:49 PM
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Dave -
You've heard a lot of info, but you're mixing facts. Read this thread from the top, its all here. Bottom line - 1) import over 25 years old all you want 2) Nothing is true in all states 3) Legal grey market cars are not a shit load of liability.
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  #157  
Old August 12th, 2008, 09:12 PM
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P. Dave... I am a safety and emmissions inspector for the state of Va. as far as legality with dot/state police and or dmv at time of registration they will register under the documents you supply, that is they donot phisically step out to the parking lot to see what you have, it is up to state police to verify if indeed it is a d90 or 110 but only if you request a dot inspection, you make an appointment and they inspect and verify that it used to be a rigth hand drive red d90 wagon and now it is a white lh steer d130 crew cab p/u showing signs of extensive frame work with matching vin.... I in the other hand receive the vehicle and inspect for safety, brakes, windshield, wipers, fuel lines,tires, frame welds amd or cracks, suspension, ligths and smog equipment if applicable with or with out valid registration and or title.
as far as smog test if it has been converted to diesel, I reffer you to dep. of environmental quality whom inspect and verify it has been converted to diesel and write a lifetime waiver..
if it is still gasoline and a manufacture date of less than 25 years It will be smog tested.
I donot know about other states but that is how it goes in the state of Va.
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  #158  
Old September 9th, 2008, 12:24 AM
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Legalities and anecdotes from California

Another thing to bear in mind:
Though one might jump all the hurdles of registration and importation, an illegal vehicle is still an illegal vehicle, and one group of concerned citizens is vigilant to prove this point: Insurance companies.

Two local anecdotal experiences: A young lad rear-ended a lawyer with his non-NAS Rover, the lawyer felt he was injured; The insurance co. declined all liability on the grounds that the 'insured' was driving an non-NAS truck (which wasn't what they felt they were insuring) Result: The fellow's dad lost his home to the opposing lawyers, and fault was also traced back to the original importer.

I have it on good authority that even a real NAS Defender with the Safari cage removed becomes an 'illegal vehicle' for purposes of insurance liability.

So it's one thing to drive around in your 'legally titled' truck, and another thing after an accident!

Tiriel
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  #159  
Old September 9th, 2008, 07:36 AM
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well the chap either had poor representation or a truck that was not properly imported. and he lost his home over a rear end incident? did he paralyze the guy or what? and you only provide one example not the two as promised...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiriel
Another thing to bear in mind:
Though one might jump all the hurdles of registration and importation, an illegal vehicle is still an illegal vehicle, and one group of concerned citizens is vigilant to prove this point: Insurance companies.

Two local anecdotal experiences: A young lad rear-ended a lawyer with his non-NAS Rover, the lawyer felt he was injured; The insurance co. declined all liability on the grounds that the 'insured' was driving an non-NAS truck (which wasn't what they felt they were insuring) Result: The fellow's dad lost his home to the opposing lawyers, and fault was also traced back to the original importer.

I have it on good authority that even a real NAS Defender with the Safari cage removed becomes an 'illegal vehicle' for purposes of insurance liability.

So it's one thing to drive around in your 'legally titled' truck, and another thing after an accident!

Tiriel
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  #160  
Old September 22nd, 2008, 06:10 PM
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This is not correct at any level.
Non NAS has absolutely nothing to do with it. Matt is that story lore or do you have first hand experience as indicated ? Non NAS trucks are legal if imported as what they truly are and granted the EPA and DOT waivers that are required- the insurance company usually calls back and double checks the VIn because they can't find it in their system. In my case they asked me to bring the truck by so the agent could photograph it. They are infinately insurable if legal and any insurance agent will verify that for you. My personal 110 is insured with Allstate. They don't even care if its rhd or lhd.

As far as modifying a car voiding insurance, that seems very far fetched. How is removing your NAS cage any different than Chip Foose cutting the top off a 2 door and making it a convertible, or taking sane sized wheels and tires off and installing 40's, or removing anti-sway bars for better off road articulation ?

If someone titles ANYTHING using a fake VIN number that is a totally different situation. You have defrauded: Customs, EPA, DOT, your state DMV, and your insurance co. All bets are off if that is your situation and I have no insight on that.
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