Whats legal? Frame Swaps, Importing, etc - Page 24 - Defender Source
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  #461  
Old April 22nd, 2017, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanroth View Post

- LT77 to R380 (my biggest import worry).
- Replace steelies with alloys
- New interior (exmoor seats, headliner and carpeting)
- roof rack
- TD5 dash
- intercooler upgrades
- various minor cosmetic mods

Any thoughts on the best way to ship back spares (i.e. my original steelies, etc) and parts I pick up here? I'm assuming CBP has a dim look on loaded trunks.

For a 93 CSW RHD, you can find rnice examples for under 10KGBP. Just be watchful for rust/rot.

thanks,
-vanroth
Read the entire thread, and you will not put an R380 in a truck that calls for a 77.
Are you moving household goods? A few extra boxes won't matter. Wheels, gearbox, transfer case.

Buy it all near the end of your time there, and get VAT forms to save 20%.
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  #462  
Old April 22nd, 2017, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGH View Post
Read the entire thread, and you will not put an R380 in a truck that calls for a 77.
Are you moving household goods? A few extra boxes won't matter. Wheels, gearbox, transfer case.

Buy it all near the end of your time there, and get VAT forms to save 20%.
I've read the thread twice, but since it goes back multiple years I'm trying to get the current lay of the land. The thread is awesome, but also states that folks have been successful importing a truck without the original transmission (LT85 vs LT77).

I'd love to add to my household shipment, but I'm limited to two size D containers -- so a few extras boxes do matter.

-vanroth
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  #463  
Old April 22nd, 2017, 03:09 PM
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Stick with the strictest interpreptation. Back when, yes, a lot of stuff got thru. Not anymore. Bone stock with solid documents is best bet. There are some importers on the forum as well, and UK and Euro vendors. PM them with specifics.

I am leaving Germany in 1 week to return to US. One truck being imported by Uncle Douglas, one staying here to age, and some freight shipments.

I am in no means an expert, so I a musing the knowledge and services of those who are.
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  #464  
Old May 6th, 2017, 12:32 PM
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PERMISSIBLE? Lift kit? Aftermarket Dashboard? Seats? Bumper? Wheels? Snorkel?

Which of the following aftermarket enhancements permitted by Customs?

Lift kit
Raptor Dash
3rd party seats
wheels
tires
snorkel
billet
etc.

Best,

Sookoon
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  #465  
Old May 6th, 2017, 08:21 PM
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For a U.S. mfr'd domestic vehicle over 25 years old & sold as a new vehicle in Canada, does anyone know if it could be imported back into the U.S. if it has had a motor swap from a 6-cyl up to a v8?

In other words, for US domestic makes mfr'd here but sold new abroad, do the (re-)import restrictions regarding modifications apply?

And heck no it's not a Jeep.
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  #466  
Old May 6th, 2017, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
For a U.S. mfr'd domestic vehicle over 25 years old & sold as a new vehicle in Canada, does anyone know if it could be imported back into the U.S. if it has had a motor swap from a 6-cyl up to a v8?

In other words, for US domestic makes mfr'd here but sold new abroad, do the (re-)import restrictions regarding modifications apply?

And heck no it's not a Jeep.
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say don't do it.
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  #467  
Old May 6th, 2017, 10:43 PM
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I brought in an '88 90 last year through Baltimore. Was told these cosmetic issues were not a problem. I had a lift, different wheels and a snorkel. Not an issue.

The critical parts are chassis, engine, transmission (my understanding & experience...n=1)

B

Quote:
Originally Posted by sookoon View Post
Which of the following aftermarket enhancements permitted by Customs?

Lift kit
Raptor Dash
3rd party seats
wheels
tires
snorkel
billet
etc.

Best,

Sookoon
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  #468  
Old May 7th, 2017, 09:58 PM
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Thanks B.

Thanks B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnoonan View Post
I brought in an '88 90 last year through Baltimore. Was told these cosmetic issues were not a problem. I had a lift, different wheels and a snorkel. Not an issue.

The critical parts are chassis, engine, transmission (my understanding & experience...n=1)

B
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  #469  
Old May 26th, 2017, 04:26 PM
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Frame shortening

What about a mostly stock late 80's tray back conversion? Would that be legal? And if so, would it still be legal if the chassis had been shortened?
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  #470  
Old June 12th, 2017, 04:24 PM
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OK all. I've done the Defender import thing and am comfortable with how laws apply to engine conversions in these. What I had not thought of (because it rarely, if ever, applies to Defenders) is the following section of EPA regs (not sure how CBP feels):

"Vehicles at least 21 years old with replacement engines are not eligible for this exemption unless they contain equivalent or newer EPA certified engines and emission control systems."

So if the vehicle (in the case I am considering it is not a Defender) has a newer engine transplant that is EPA approved and was sold in the USA (in this case a Toyota 2F) would it be allowed in, even if it was manufactured 2 years before that engine was released?

[I know the answer is better safe than sorry, but I'd like to think this is not subjective and that there is a hard yes or no answer to this]
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  #471  
Old June 12th, 2017, 07:38 PM
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Forum member, attorney Willh (Defender of Defenders) can site the legal mumbo jumbo. What you're asking sounds like it's legal. It sounds like it should be easy. I personally would not attempt this in today's legal environment.

Ask Willh directly.

Mike & Carrie

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnoonan View Post
OK all. I've done the Defender import thing and am comfortable with how laws apply to engine conversions in these. What I had not thought of (because it rarely, if ever, applies to Defenders) is the following section of EPA regs (not sure how CBP feels):

"Vehicles at least 21 years old with replacement engines are not eligible for this exemption unless they contain equivalent or newer EPA certified engines and emission control systems."

So if the vehicle (in the case I am considering it is not a Defender) has a newer engine transplant that is EPA approved and was sold in the USA (in this case a Toyota 2F) would it be allowed in, even if it was manufactured 2 years before that engine was released?

[I know the answer is better safe than sorry, but I'd like to think this is not subjective and that there is a hard yes or no answer to this]
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  #472  
Old July 13th, 2017, 04:37 PM
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I was curious about the EPA's position on engine swaps performed on imported vehicles in the US so I emailed them. This was my question and the agent's response.

Q: Is it legal to replace the original nonconforming engine in a motor vehicle imported under the 25 year old rule with either the same type of engine or a different nonconforming engine?

A: "For a motor vehicle that was imported under the EPA's age exclusion and if the engine is replaced, the engine needs to be a direct replacement (original engine from the OEM or an aftermarket engine that was built to be identical to the original engine)."
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  #473  
Old July 13th, 2017, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip View Post
I was curious about the EPA's position on engine swaps performed on imported vehicles in the US so I emailed them. This was my question and the agent's response.

Q: Is it legal to replace the original nonconforming engine in a motor vehicle imported under the 25 year old rule with either the same type of engine or a different nonconforming engine?

A: "For a motor vehicle that was imported under the EPA's age exclusion and if the engine is replaced, the engine needs to be a direct replacement (original engine from the OEM or an aftermarket engine that was built to be identical to the original engine)."

You didn't ask the correct question, you should have asked if its Ok to fit a 21 yr old non conforming epa exempt engine from the vehicles manufacturer.
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  #474  
Old July 13th, 2017, 05:50 PM
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To be clear, we are not addressing my question above (that dealt with a swap BEFORE importation).

Now....WHAT! What he just said is basically that no non-Rover engines (e.g. LS) nor OEM upgrades (e.g. change 19J to 200tdi) can be put in Defenders after they have been legally imported with a conforming (original) engine.
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  #475  
Old July 13th, 2017, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnoonan View Post

"Vehicles at least 21 years old with replacement engines are not eligible for this exemption unless they contain equivalent or newer EPA certified engines and emission control systems."

So if the vehicle (in the case I am considering it is not a Defender) has a newer engine transplant that is EPA approved and was sold in the USA (in this case a Toyota 2F) would it be allowed in, even if it was manufactured 2 years before that engine was released?

[I know the answer is better safe than sorry, but I'd like to think this is not subjective and that there is a hard yes or no answer to this]

This used to be the way the import law was interpreted/enforced.
Since 2012 when things changed, DOT says a vehicle is not eligible for their departments 25 yr waiver if it has a non-original engine replacement.
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  #476  
Old July 14th, 2017, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
This used to be the way the import law was interpreted/enforced.
Since 2012 when things changed, DOT says a vehicle is not eligible for their departments 25 yr waiver if it has a non-original engine replacement.


This. It's the DOT requirement that a vehicle only qualifies for their exemption if it is "in its original configuration" that acts as a catch-all. CBP is the enforcer for both EPA and DOT regulations.


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  #477  
Old July 14th, 2017, 10:19 AM
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As the EPA said yesterday during my phone call "The CBP is the Gatekeeper, we just need compliance to the 3520 form"


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  #478  
Old July 14th, 2017, 10:51 AM
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Fundamentally it's an expensive maybe to try and tow the line here. I'm always in the 'why risk it' camp when it comes to this because storage and forced export is like a $8000 fuck up (maybe more, no idea). Get a correct vehicle and hack it to pieces here
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  #479  
Old July 14th, 2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by globallandrovers View Post
You didn't ask the correct question, you should have asked if its Ok to fit a 21 yr old non conforming epa exempt engine from the vehicles manufacturer.
I asked that and this was the response.

Q: Is it legal to install a 21 year or older nonconforming engine imported under the ancient engine exemption into a 21 year or older motor vehicle?

A: "The EPA's age exclusion is for a motor vehicle and not a non-chassis mounted LDV engine."

I thought you can import 21 year old engines. This is coming from their imports hotline which is being managed by a 3rd party contractor, so maybe they aren't quoting correct information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnoonan View Post
To be clear, we are not addressing my question above (that dealt with a swap BEFORE importation).

Now....WHAT! What he just said is basically that no non-Rover engines (e.g. LS) nor OEM upgrades (e.g. change 19J to 200tdi) can be put in Defenders after they have been legally imported with a conforming (original) engine.
That's what I was trying to find out. I asked for clarification, but I haven't received a response yet. I think maybe they thought I was asking about importing a vehicle with a non-original engine.
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  #480  
Old July 14th, 2017, 02:06 PM
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I asked this question at the Texas DMV (I know, not a reliable source). "Now that my 1988 Defender is titled and registered in Texas, do you care what engine is in the vehicle?"

Answer: "Nope."
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