97 D90 NAS Any comments appreciated - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old December 27th, 2013, 10:34 PM
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97 D90 NAS Any comments appreciated

Hi,

Is anyone here willing to comment on this 97 D90:

http://www.catsexotics.com/web/vehicle_photos/1446973/

I took a look at it recently. There was an odometer issue, so I think the true mileage is around 85,000. But otherwise it looked great. Any comments from those who know what to look for would be appreciated.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old December 27th, 2013, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquatiger View Post
Hi,

Is anyone here willing to comment on this 97 D90:

http://www.catsexotics.com/web/vehicle_photos/1446973/

I took a look at it recently. There was an odometer issue, so I think the true mileage is around 85,000. But otherwise it looked great. Any comments from those who know what to look for would be appreciated.

Thanks
Quick look, seems to be a nice truck. What's the price...did I miss that?

But...for the love of God please have them take those D-rings off the tie-down loops in the rear. That gave me great pain.

------ Follow up post added December 27th, 2013 10:46 PM ------

From the main page looks like it's sold: http://www.catsexotics.com/web/used/...ngton/1446973/
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  #3  
Old December 27th, 2013, 11:00 PM
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They had it listed for $48,000 on that site, but it was purchased and moved to the East Coast with a 1 month jump to being listed at $66,000. I don't think it's worth 66, but I do think it looks like a nice vehicle.

The odometer issue was weird. The carfax had all the odometer entries listed, but in a 6 month period in 2006 it went from 69,000 to 21,000. I'm not sure if there was a rollback or just a replacement speedometer or what. But it made me a bit nervous that there may be something else hidden. The carfax was otherwise clean.

Thanks for the input.
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  #4  
Old December 27th, 2013, 11:07 PM
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That truck is in really good shape.
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  #5  
Old December 27th, 2013, 11:23 PM
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What are those roll bar pads hiding?
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  #6  
Old December 28th, 2013, 01:54 AM
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Brandon Donald
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Armor All and all... that is a shockingly nice truck.
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  #7  
Old December 28th, 2013, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
What are those roll bar pads hiding?
A very well *padded* D90 indeed. The other thing that stands out to me is that it looks like it was re-sprayed. What paint they used would be a concern to me. Another concern would be the speedo discrepancy. For $66Klams , they must have a good explanation
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Old December 28th, 2013, 07:43 AM
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So if I go look at this truck again, I'll pull off the rollbar pads and see if there's any rust under. I appreciate that suggestion. I never would have thought to look there specifically. Hopefully they are just hiding....really nice rollbars.

As for the odometer, do you guys think there could be any explanation that's acceptable? Per the carfax, it looks like it was changed about 50,000 miles. Trying to think positive, I envision an odometer change in 2005 (I said 2006 earlier, but it was 2005, sorry) and they just reprogrammed it 50,000 less. In my eyes it's an 85,000 mile car regardless of what the odometer says. I just don't know what that does to the value, 35 vs 85 all else being equal.

The carfax mileage looks like this:
10/18/1997 40 (sold to first owner)
8/6/1999 11,000 (sold)
9/13/2002 36,678
4/08/2003 43,094
9/10/2003 47,443
10/30/2003 49,255
12/15/2003 50,556
4/27/2004 54,293
11/24/204 57,640
01/13/2005 63,150
6/22/2005 69,255
B/10/21/2005 21,032
10/03/2006 24,000 (failed a WA emissions)
10/3/2006 24,293 (passed emissions)
10/15/2009 30,649 (sold)
11/11/2009 30,884
07/28/2010 32,151

As for the paint, based on the color of the screws in the hinges I'm sure it was repainted. But it feels very nice. It feels like powder coat, although I don't know if they could powder coat a whole car. If looks nice.
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  #9  
Old December 28th, 2013, 07:58 AM
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The pads probably aren't hiding anything, but if they are it's usually the padding around the cage that has chunks out of it.

I'm sure you could buy it and try to flip it for $88k

SALDV2242VA114297

Aside from that, I'd be wondering why it has 6 "recovery" shackles all over the vehicle, mismatched tires, and the odometer. It probably has more like 100k miles on it.
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  #10  
Old December 28th, 2013, 08:06 AM
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That rack is unusual. It would be nice to see it on a truck.
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Old December 28th, 2013, 08:19 AM
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rijosho: I'm definitely not in the flipping game. I'm looking for a nice, clean Defender that will break down randomly and slowly bleed my bank account to death. Am I entering the Defender game with the right attitude?

Seriously though, this would be a long term vehicle for me, assuming it didn't fall apart.

I don't mind paying for what I get. I just want to make sure I get what I'm paying for.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Thanks for the input guys. I really appreciate the veteran advice.
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  #12  
Old December 28th, 2013, 08:25 AM
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For more that 40k I would want a perfect carfax ...I would not want to have to 'explain' to anyone discrepancies. The dealer is talking out of his arse ... He likely has no idea why the rollback occurred.

If it's not totally original it's not worth near this kind of money in my opinion.

If it's had paint work then it's probably had other issues.
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  #13  
Old December 28th, 2013, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
For more that 40k I would want a perfect carfax ...I would not want to have to 'explain' to anyone discrepancies. The dealer is talking out of his arse ... He likely has no idea why the rollback occurred. If it's not totally original it's not worth near this kind of money in my opinion. If it's had paint work then it's probably had other issues.
Agreed. Speedo issues warrant major discounts simply due to the questionability. For me a clean carfax is everything.
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  #14  
Old December 28th, 2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by aquatiger View Post
rijosho: I'm definitely not in the flipping game. I'm looking for a nice, clean Defender that will break down randomly and slowly bleed my bank account to death. Am I entering the Defender game with the right attitude? Seriously though, this would be a long term vehicle for me, assuming it didn't fall apart. I don't mind paying for what I get. I just want to make sure I get what I'm paying for. Hopefully that makes sense. Thanks for the input guys. I really appreciate the veteran advice.
Shawn, ignoring the look of the truck for a moment, I would advise you to find a solid Land Rover mechanic that can/will go through this with a knowledgeable fine tooth comb. They are out there. $300 for proper analysis is probably a great investment. Turn it around and use it to beat the asking price down and make it pay for itself.

The other thing you might want to keep in mind is the odometer issue will be that gift that keeps on giving. I would use the leverage you have on the seller to get answers.

Clay
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Old December 28th, 2013, 09:29 AM
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From a price perspective I do have one thing that helps me. You guys may know about this already, but for those who dont: small business owners are able to deduct equipment purchases and vehicles through something called a Section 179 deduction. For a few years there up until 2012 you could deduct the entire cost of a vehicle that weighs over 6000lbs in one year. So if you bought a Mercedes G wagon you could write off the entire purchase in a year. All that means is that you are paying with pre-tax dollars, so it just makes the actual cost of the vehicle a bit less. So a $100,000 G wagon that weighs 6800lbs would save you about $35,000 in taxes. You can read a little bit about it here:

http://www.section179.org/section_17...eductions.html
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p946/ch02.html

This year the deduction is limited to $25,000 for 6000lbs vehicles (Thanks Obama. Just kidding). Ever wonder why a Defender was 6,001lbs? Because Land Rover knew what they were doing. They made the car a pound over, knowing it would save business owners a good bit of money and be a selling point. Land Rover discusses this on their website because they still sell cars that are over 6000lbs:

http://www.landrover.com/us/en/lr/sp...tax-advantage/

So anyway, long story short I own a business. So I can write off up to $25,000 per year on a Defender. If I do it in the next few days, I'll get a 2013 and forward deduction. If I wait, my deduction will be for 2014 and forward. So you can see there is a little bit of leeway on the price. I don't want a crappy car, I don't want to significantly overpay, but if it's between talking him down from say $50,000 today to $44,000 on January 1, then it's a wash for me.

Hopefully I explained that part well enough.

Anyway, you guys have given me some good info. Sounds like the general consensus is that an odometer rollback itself can just be a red flag that other issues exist. I'm going to take a mechanic on Monday to see it. If there are any questions I'll walk away, it's not worth the risk.
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  #16  
Old December 28th, 2013, 09:30 AM
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The original air intake hose appears to be missing and replaced with some flex hose.
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  #17  
Old December 28th, 2013, 09:41 AM
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Double check the silly personal use limits under 179. Just to be safe and aware what records you need to keep, if any.

Clay
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  #18  
Old December 28th, 2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by hoxie173 View Post
The original air intake hose appears to be missing and replaced with some flex hose.
That's a Land Rover part. The old style clothe ones deteriorate, so they came out with a rubber version that is much better.
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Old December 28th, 2013, 09:54 AM
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Double check the tax advice and make sure that applies to used vehicles just to be safe.

Clay
Yes, I asked my accountant that exact question. The key is that it's new to the business. "New to you" is the term you'll see. I searched it as well and saw that exact question asked, with the same answer. Used vehicles don't qualify for Bonus Depreciation, but I don't have anything up in Bonus. I'm a small business. Bottom line is, this car qualifies.


This is from a website:

What's the difference between Section 179 and Bonus Depreciation?
The most important difference is both new and used equipment qualify for the Section 179 Deduction (as long as the used equipment is "new to you"), while Bonus Depreciation covers new equipment only. Bonus Depreciation is useful to very large businesses spending more than $2,000,000 on new capital equipment in 2013.
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  #20  
Old December 28th, 2013, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquatiger View Post
From a price perspective I do have one thing that helps me. You guys may know about this already, but for those who dont: small business owners are able to deduct equipment purchases and vehicles through something called a Section 179 deduction. For a few years there up until 2012 you could deduct the entire cost of a vehicle that weighs over 6000lbs in one year. So if you bought a Mercedes G wagon you could write off the entire purchase in a year. All that means is that you are paying with pre-tax dollars, so it just makes the actual cost of the vehicle a bit less. So a $100,000 G wagon that weighs 6800lbs would save you about $35,000 in taxes. You can read a little bit about it here:

http://www.section179.org/section_17...eductions.html
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p946/ch02.html

This year the deduction is limited to $25,000 for 6000lbs vehicles (Thanks Obama. Just kidding). Ever wonder why a Defender was 6,001lbs? Because Land Rover knew what they were doing. They made the car a pound over, knowing it would save business owners a good bit of money and be a selling point. Land Rover discusses this on their website because they still sell cars that are over 6000lbs:

http://www.landrover.com/us/en/lr/sp...tax-advantage/

So anyway, long story short I own a business. So I can write off up to $25,000 per year on a Defender. If I do it in the next few days, I'll get a 2013 and forward deduction. If I wait, my deduction will be for 2014 and forward. So you can see there is a little bit of leeway on the price. I don't want a crappy car, I don't want to significantly overpay, but if it's between talking him down from say $50,000 today to $44,000 on January 1, then it's a wash for me.

Hopefully I explained that part well enough.

Anyway, you guys have given me some good info. Sounds like the general consensus is that an odometer rollback itself can just be a red flag that other issues exist. I'm going to take a mechanic on Monday to see it. If there are any questions I'll walk away, it's not worth the risk.
You would be significantly overpaying for this vehicle IMHO.

Also consider this ... going forward if you wanted to sell it ... all of this conversation is 'preserved' in the ether of the internet. If you wanted to sell it you'd need to sell to someone who didn't research the truck here.

You should do what is best for you ... but get the truck inspected properly ... this truck could easily be lipstick on a pig and require major spending beyond the shiny exterior.
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