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  #41  
Old June 20th, 2016, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Willh View Post
Just a couple of months ago I shook my head in astonishment at seeing the following eBay ad posted:

1993 NAS Land Rover Defender 110 Parts | eBay

A quick scan of the seller's info in the link above and you'll likely understand my reaction (for the record, said seller is not one of my clients, nor could they be due to existing and continuing conflicts of interest). At any rate, I archived a copy of the ad for my records and I now share it with my clients as an example of what not to do. I believe most everyone can appreciate why........
Wait are we comparing Doc Aaron's NAS 110 ad to Jeff's D90 ad, or contrasting them?


Aaron: "the truck was still a running driving truck before I started the project. To be clear this is not a truck, but a collection of parts that can be sold in one bulk lot or separate."

Jeff: "NO Title, NO VIN, an assembly of parts that runs. *** Fully running, parts truck."
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  #42  
Old June 20th, 2016, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
Wait are we comparing Doc Aaron's NAS 110 ad to Jeff's D90 ad, or contrasting them? Aaron: "the truck was still a running driving truck before I started the project. To be clear this is not a truck, but a collection of parts that can be sold in one bulk lot or separate." Jeff: "NO Title, NO VIN, an assembly of parts that runs. *** Fully running, parts truck."
Both look like full disclosures. Not clear what the issue is. My guess the goodies already stripped from the latter will become one of the nicer NAS 110 clone beach/wave/surf/sand/etc runner builds out of NC.
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  #43  
Old June 20th, 2016, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Both look like full disclosures. Not clear what the issue is.
Full disclosure I don't think removes liability.

I guess it depends how risk adverse you are. Sell to your friend, know where the truck went. Seems easy enough. Sell to some random idiot on ebay. He crashes it. Suddenly people are wondering why a complete truck that probably still has VIN on frame has no title. Who knows what will happen.
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  #44  
Old June 20th, 2016, 06:40 PM
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Obviously vin swapping (taking the ID off one truck and putting it on another) is not ok, but I fail to see a law that says if you rebuild a truck you can sell what remains as parts. On a NAS the VIN is in three locations, frame, bulkhead (D90) metal plate or windscreen (D110) metal plate, and on D90s bulkhead footwell, and on D110s on the B pillar. Unfortunately two of those locations are known rust spots and, if you add the fact that to replace the bulkhead on a D90 you need to transfer the metal plate to the new bulkhead, it seems to be the same sort of ship of Theseus issue. Also, and maybe WillH can chime in, but I always understood VIN tampering/swapping had to be for fraudulent purposes to be criminal (not withstanding the position customs has taken on importable or not). On my restoration I very carefully saved (or rather made sure the previous owner provided as it came with a new frame) everything with a VIN to show (1) it was rusty and needed to be replaced and (2) to prevent anyone trying to claim the truck was theirs.

------ Follow up post added June 20th, 2016 06:42 PM ------

I should add every parts only truck I have bought had no VINs. I made sure that I knew where they came from so they were obviously not stolen but rather used as a basis for restoration legitimately.
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  #45  
Old June 20th, 2016, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
Wait are we comparing Doc Aaron's NAS 110 ad to Jeff's D90 ad, or contrasting them?


Aaron: "the truck was still a running driving truck before I started the project. To be clear this is not a truck, but a collection of parts that can be sold in one bulk lot or separate."

Jeff: "NO Title, NO VIN, an assembly of parts that runs. *** Fully running, parts truck."
Josh,

Hmm......comparison of the two ads wasn't my intent, it was merely an illustration. It's interesting that you would make note any such distinctions between the two ads, but I must ask, to what end? Are you attempting to assert that former is somehow "better" stated than the latter, or that the latter version is somehow "worse" than the former?

At the end of the day, they more or less state the same thing in my eyes. "Tomāto, Tomäto", I suppose, but of no consequence really. Any way you slice it, it's still a tomato.......

Just for fun, I'm going to channel my inner "Kellgren" and restate the above in reductio ad absurdum form:

A: "This was an edible tomato before I started to eat it. (the implication being that this tomato may still be edible). To be clear though, this is NOT a tomato, but rather a collection of diced pieces from the aforementioned tomato (which isn't a tomato) most of which hasn't actually been diced from the original tomato at all, but that can be purchased either as one bulk lot of diced tomato (did I mention this isn't a tomato?) or in separate diced pieces (bear in mind, however, that this auction is for the whole tomato which, in case you forgot, isn't a tomato)."

J: "This tomato does not convey with registrable documentation of legal ownership (you can never again call this tomato, "tomato"). This tomato does not convey with any markings that would allow you to legally register it in anyone's own name or to indicate where it was grown or to identify what kind of tomato it in-fact is (there is nothing to identify this as a tomato, aside from the fact that it "looks" like a tomato). This is a collection of assembled pieces that resemble the vegetable formerly known as "tomato" and it is edible. ***Fully edible diced vegetable."

See my point?
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  #46  
Old June 20th, 2016, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Also, and maybe WillH can chime in, but I always understood VIN tampering/swapping had to be for fraudulent purposes to be criminal (not withstanding the position customs has taken on importable or not).
Ron,

Unfortunately, there isn't a blanket answer to cover all scenarios, mostly because the laws vary from state to state, with the same also resulting in conflicts between state and federal laws and regulations as well. For instance, some states don't require a showing of fraud for VIN tampering, only that the act be willful. To make matters worse, not all federal laws and regs are in agreement with each other either!

So, as you can see sir, the devil is in the details! It sure does help keep things interesting for me though!
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  #47  
Old June 20th, 2016, 08:47 PM
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I think you all are paranoid.


I have never been in or know anyone that has been in an accident where the officer in charge starting looking for vin plates on either the chassis, bulkhead or any other place. Produce a registration and an insurance card and I'd bet 99% of the time you are golden.

If you're selling a truck for parts (even though it runs) and are worried about your idiot buyer, then simply create a bill of sale stating "parts only" and have it signed and even perhaps notarized. I don't see what the big deal is.
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  #48  
Old June 20th, 2016, 09:45 PM
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Agreed Contractor, but this country is run almost entirely by pettifoggers who would just as soon climb a pole and sue a friend as stand on the ground and do the right thing.

Funny thing is is that auction houses like Coparts sell whole running and non-running "parts only" vehicles all day everyday using documents like " NV-NON-REPAIRABLE VEHICLE CERT"

But leave tit to lawyers to make the simple complicated.
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  #49  
Old June 20th, 2016, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Contractor View Post
I think you all are paranoid. I have never been in or know anyone that has been in an accident where the officer in charge starting looking for vin plates on either the chassis, bulkhead or any other place. Produce a registration and an insurance card and I'd bet 99% of the time you are golden. If you're selling a truck for parts (even though it runs) and are worried about your idiot buyer, then simply create a bill of sale stating "parts only" and have it signed and even perhaps notarized. I don't see what the big deal is.
Will,

I suspect you'll be surprised to hear that I am currently representing clients in two (2) separate state governed seizure cases and that I was retained to represent another client for a third (3rd) state's investigation and inspection of that client's vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Agreed Contractor, but this country is run almost entirely by pettifoggers who would just as soon climb a pole and sue a friend as stand on the ground and do the right thing. Funny thing is is that auction houses like Coparts sell whole running and non-running "parts only" vehicles all day everyday using documents like " NV-NON-REPAIRABLE VEHICLE CERT" But leave tit to lawyers to make the simple complicated.
Raub,

I hope you don't take me to be one of "those" lawyers.
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  #50  
Old June 20th, 2016, 10:54 PM
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I love tomato sandwiches.

I fell in love with Defenders pretty early too. I am not sure on the year, but Newport Beach had a few D90 STs in their Lifeguard fleet. I'm guessing Rover gave them to them to market the NAS trucks. What is weird though is that I feel like it was earlier than 1994. Dunno.

Anyway... I am in CA, and, I am tempted to flip one of these, but what I really want is to own one. I was in Chicago this weekend for a family wedding, and I went and looked at this truck: Land Rover Defender Base Sport Utility 2 Door | eBay

Truck runs great. Has rust in the footwells, under the doors etc. But it is fairly well represented in the Ad. Also, I boat on Lake Havasu on the CA side, and I could get away with a green sticker (off road) only type deal. I could use it to launch the boat and play in the desert. Perfect! My point? Sometimes I have one... You can LOVE Defenders, flip/rebuild one, and register a diced up, non-tomato for running off road only. And you could do that at the same time, and not be a synthetic, GMO, tomato, conspirator.
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  #51  
Old June 24th, 2016, 09:56 PM
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"Chicago this weekend for a family wedding, and I went and looked at this truck: Land Rover Defender Base Sport Utility 2 Door | eBay"

Quietcat22, in reference to that eBay in Chicago, NADA lists average retail at $52k. Do you feel the price for this one at $49995 is fair given the condition?
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  #52  
Old June 25th, 2016, 11:24 AM
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Hey Tom. I spent about 15 mins with the truck and drove it about 3 miles in city traffic. Plan was to spend more time, but I was getting a little stink eye... Some rust in all the typical spots, doors, footwell. Bulkhead looked good, but I wouldn't swear to it. Sounded, and drove great. Shifts easily into all gears. Didn't try reverse. AC works, all gages good, didn't try the stereo. One of the Hella lights is out. Some paint bubbling in a few spots. Their pics show most of the overall condition well if you spend some time staring at them.

I took some more pics I'll post a little later. I wouldn't call it rough, but certainly not pristine. Hard for me to think a $50k example shouldn't be damn near perfect, but there is a '95 ST near me listed for $120k so what the flip do I know? It could be driven and enjoyed as is for a long time. And it looks as good as the pics. Could also be made close to perfect without disassembly. Oh, the left door panel is crap. You can see the area of concern if you look closely on the ad. I have better pics of that.

If the time was right I think I'd offer $40, but I usually think more wholesale or private party.
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  #53  
Old June 25th, 2016, 02:28 PM
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How easy is it to take the tops off these things? Easy like a Jeep? I mean to take it off for the summer and put a soft top on, then put the hard top back on for the winter?
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  #54  
Old June 25th, 2016, 03:24 PM
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How easy is it to take the tops off these things? Easy like a Jeep? I mean to take it off for the summer and put a soft top on, then put the hard top back on for the winter?
easy for soft top. 20 mins.
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  #55  
Old June 25th, 2016, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Willh View Post

I hope you don't take me to be one of "those" lawyers.
Will, can I call you if I spill hot coffee in my lap at the Starbucks in Raleigh??



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  #56  
Old June 25th, 2016, 04:32 PM
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Will, can I call you if I spill hot coffee in my lap at the Starbucks in Raleigh?? .
....
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  #57  
Old June 25th, 2016, 04:41 PM
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easy for soft top. 20 mins.
The one he is asking about is a SW. No personal experience, but I'm guessing very hard to impractical.
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  #58  
Old June 25th, 2016, 05:59 PM
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The one he is asking about is a SW. No personal experience, but I'm guessing very hard to impractical.
ah yes. Only easy with an SW if you have a chain saw. They aren't made to come off easily.
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  #59  
Old June 25th, 2016, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomandreann View Post
How easy is it to take the tops off these things? Easy like a Jeep? I mean to take it off for the summer and put a soft top on, then put the hard top back on for the winter?
Two different trucks.
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