1986 D90 ex-MOD - hey guys - tilt causes paint to dissolve?? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 20th, 2015, 02:59 PM
nickybee
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Nick Bicanic
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1986 D90 ex-MOD - hey guys - tilt causes paint to dissolve??

Hi everybody. This is my first post - I'm the happy recipient of a brand new (well...new to me ) D90 that I just picked up from Port Hueneme in California yesterday.

So if you happen to be in Venice Beach and you see an olive drab D90 driving around...that'll be me.

In any case - bought it from PA Blanchard recently - they did a kick ass job with it.
Nick's communication was great - and they sent regular photos of the build.

See images attached for how awesome it looked when it was in their depot. (of course then it spent 4 weeks on a boat - I used RO-RO not container.

Here's the funny thing...as soon as I picked it up I rolled up the back and sides of the tilt and was surprised to find out that the tilt was literally "stuck" to the rollcage...

(FYI - for those who are paying attention - yes that's a Wolf rollcage and Wolf front seats)

After undoing the velcro and peeling it off - it became clear that the inside of the velcroed area of the tilt had somehow managed to dissolve the paint underneath it.

This is very weird.

Btw this wasn't only on one strap - it was on ALL of them. It's now 36 hours later and the paint is still tacky and will likely stay that way - very very very weird...

I've discussed it with Nick at Blanchard and he has no idea how this might have happened.

Here are my current theories

1. The paint didn't cure properly (Blanchard is 100% certain this is NOT the case)

2. The paint was cured but something in the tilt caused it to dissolve (e.g. some kind of off-gassing) - this seems absurd but any theories are considered at this point

3. Prior to being installed the tilt was cleaned in a solvent bath - and this solvent then stayed on the surface - dissolving the paint over a 4 week period

Anyone seen ANYTHING like this before?

I ask because I'm intending to fix it by sanding/respraying the rollbars in the appropriate place...but I don't want it to happen again...

See photos for closeups of tacky rollbars and stained tilt (aswell as the beast itself)
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  #2  
Old August 20th, 2015, 03:18 PM
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It's kinda odd, but plastics can do weird stuff when in direct contact with other surfaces. PVC will "bleed" out permanent marker, acquire stains and do other funky stuff. And there was probably heat involved along the way. I'd probably strip these cage parts and go with a nice powder coat.
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  #3  
Old August 20th, 2015, 05:11 PM
nickybee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
It's kinda odd, but plastics can do weird stuff when in direct contact with other surfaces. PVC will "bleed" out permanent marker, acquire stains and do other funky stuff. And there was probably heat involved along the way. I'd probably strip these cage parts and go with a nice powder coat.
Thanks Jim - that's what I'll end up doing - just confused because if it happened once and no one can explain why - I wonder if it'll happen again when I Attach the soft top...

It's not like the thing went to the moon or some weird heart-of-a-volcano heat conditions...
I mean sure it was hot in the container ship - but it was RO-RO so it won't have been ultra hot (at least I don't think so
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  #4  
Old August 20th, 2015, 05:53 PM
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Robert Davis
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Nice ride.
I would check with your local galvanizer and see what it would cost to galvanize the roll bars.
This is all cosmetics and the top should clean up as it looks to be a plastic coated PVC and not the usual cloth canvas seen on most civilian counter parts.

Compared to the condition of most of these ROW military vehicles a few cosmetic blemishes are common and not too difficult to remedy.

Welcome to the marque!
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  #5  
Old August 20th, 2015, 06:08 PM
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If that is a diesel how are you planning on registering it in California?
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  #6  
Old August 20th, 2015, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
If that is a diesel how are you planning on registering it in California?
I have been waiting for you to ask that question.
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  #7  
Old August 20th, 2015, 06:12 PM
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It has to be asked. I hope the answer isn't "why" or "what do you mean".
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  #8  
Old August 20th, 2015, 06:24 PM
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My guess is that Nick has serious $$$ and probably has serious $$$ ways around the issue. In those cases, it's probably best just to not get into details, especially in a public forum :P

If the top is PVC, heat will cause it to degrade and emit HCl. No idea if that is what the top is made of or that is what caused the paint to react as shown.
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  #9  
Old August 20th, 2015, 07:45 PM
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I would say there was some off gassing from the fabric at least. Possibly UV and heat while travelling on the water caused the off gassing. Said gasses mixed with the paint, which probably doesn't fully cure for an extended period, and Prest-O / Change-O, sticky goo....
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  #10  
Old August 20th, 2015, 09:08 PM
nickybee
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Nick Bicanic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Nice ride.
I would check with your local galvanizer and see what it would cost to galvanize the roll bars.
This is all cosmetics and the top should clean up as it looks to be a plastic coated PVC and not the usual cloth canvas seen on most civilian counter parts.

Compared to the condition of most of these ROW military vehicles a few cosmetic blemishes are common and not too difficult to remedy.

Welcome to the marque!
yeah - the problem is I paid extra for a wolf roll cage which was painted...and then paid extra for a wolf tilt...

with that in mind this is not something you want happening on day 1

------ Follow up post added August 20th, 2015 08:09 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I have been waiting for you to ask that question.
oh sorry - I'm not entirely moronic
I figured I'd read up on all this after my old Wrangler died.

The short answer is engine swap.

I already have the donor engine and some other bits. (from a wrecked disco)

------ Follow up post added August 20th, 2015 08:14 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
My guess is that Nick has serious $$$ and probably has serious $$$ ways around the issue. In those cases, it's probably best just to not get into details, especially in a public forum :P

If the top is PVC, heat will cause it to degrade and emit HCl. No idea if that is what the top is made of or that is what caused the paint to react as shown.
I wish I had serious $$$
When the jeep died 2 months back I went looking for a replacement daily driver...originally the budget was 10k...but of course that kinda went...ermm...away

and then I ran into an ebay defender 90 that I didn't win...and then...well...

I'm sure that part of the story is familiar to anyone who might read this forum

The total cost all in - shipping, customs, acquiring vehicle, upgrades etc etc etc, engine swap, blah blah blah will be 25k give or take

Supposedly the street value is well in excess of that because it will be NAS at that point. So I'm thinking it's a good deal.

As for PVC emissions of HCI - what's the I? the HC I assume is Hydrocarbons i.e. fumes

How much heat would be needed for that?? - it's just so strange to me that it would happen on the boat ride over....especially if paint was cured (as per Blanchard)

makes me wonder if there was something else wrong with the paint mix...What's to prevent it happening again in the california sun/desert - even if I sand it off?
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  #11  
Old August 20th, 2015, 09:17 PM
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You changing to the Disco auto as well? Just asking as the diesel box won't work with the V8.

I would guess the paint had not completely cured and reacted with the top.
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  #12  
Old August 20th, 2015, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickybee View Post
yeah - the problem is I paid extra for a wolf roll cage which was painted...and then paid extra for a wolf tilt...
And you got both according to the pictures.

Again, welcome.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #13  
Old August 20th, 2015, 10:59 PM
nickybee
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Nick Bicanic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
You changing to the Disco auto as well? Just asking as the diesel box won't work with the V8.

I would guess the paint had not completely cured and reacted with the top.
I hope I can keep it stick...not sure what Ben found for me yet
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  #14  
Old August 21st, 2015, 12:47 AM
nickybee
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Nick Bicanic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
And you got both according to the pictures.

Again, welcome.
Thanks for welcoming me...I'm confused about your first comment though.
I mean Wolf tilt + Roll cage was $2300 to add onto the base vehicle. That's not zero

I'm not asking for confirmation of the fact that I got it...but I'm curious about the manner in which it was received.

in other words I'm asking the forum whether I should be thinking

(a) Too bad mate - this is an extremely rare phenomenon that couldn't have been predicted - freak accident...just deal with it

or

(b) This happened because the paint didn't fully cure

If it's (a) then so be it.
But if it's (b) that's not the same thing...

Unless I'm misreading it - your tone suggests that I should consider myself lucky that the custom paint + parts that I paid for are not more damaged than they are...
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  #15  
Old August 21st, 2015, 02:08 AM
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Interior looks ex mod v exterior brand new fresh coat. A little odd IMHO unless you plan to cover it up
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  #16  
Old August 21st, 2015, 03:20 AM
nickybee
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Nick Bicanic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Interior looks ex mod v exterior brand new fresh coat. A little odd IMHO unless you plan to cover it up
I'm gonna rhino line the interior - I literally just got it 24 hours ago
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  #17  
Old August 21st, 2015, 03:52 AM
nickybee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
I understand your frustration, and after paying a lot of money, you expect it to be better than it is. But the reality is that if you daily drive this, in a year, it wont matter.

-Jeff
I agree - only time it matters is that the paint isn't scuffed it's sticky goo...
if it was scuffed it would milldly bother me but I'd forget it five minutes...

unfortunately as it is - every anyone puts their hands on rollbars - they get black sticky goo on their hands...
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  #18  
Old August 21st, 2015, 05:13 AM
nickybee
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For the record - Blanchard is being really good about this.
They are as confused as I am - since they've never seen this behaviour before.

I know for a fact that if I was in the UK - they'd fix this immediately at no charge.

However in this case I'm just going to fix it since it's minor.

My only real worry is if it'll happen again - but we'll find out soon enough
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  #19  
Old August 21st, 2015, 09:14 AM
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Nice truck, I got my 110 from Blanchard and thought they were great. Sorry I can't help with your specific issue. Mine was originally a hardtop but I had them put a canvas hood on it, with standard MOD roll bar. I haven't had trouble with the paint on the bar, except for some wear from the canvas abrading it when driving at higher speeds over several years.


I'd try parking it in the sun with the top off and see if it hardens up. Assuming you use it for the purpose it was intended, a little cosmetic flaw like that will soon be only one of many. If it were mine (assuming it hardens up) I'd welcome it as the beginnings of some patina.
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  #20  
Old August 21st, 2015, 01:53 PM
nickybee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post
Nice truck, I got my 110 from Blanchard and thought they were great. Sorry I can't help with your specific issue. Mine was originally a hardtop but I had them put a canvas hood on it, with standard MOD roll bar. I haven't had trouble with the paint on the bar, except for some wear from the canvas abrading it when driving at higher speeds over several years.


I'd try parking it in the sun with the top off and see if it hardens up. Assuming you use it for the purpose it was intended, a little cosmetic flaw like that will soon be only one of many. If it were mine (assuming it hardens up) I'd welcome it as the beginnings of some patina.
yeah it's been outside in the california sun for 2 days now - still tacky...so I'll sand it off and respray

it's nothing in the long run...was just annoying to see it day 1
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