Zf 4HP22 Transmission Governor Valve - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 14th, 2013, 02:26 AM
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Zf 4HP22 Transmission Governor Valve

My automatic is one made for the Disco 1 with a 300Tdi. Mfg date 1996.
The actual transmission LR part number is FTC6099 and the ZF number is 1043 010 744.

I first noticed it would not go into 4th lock up at all at the usual 51 mph. As it warmed it would not even go into 3rd. When cold it will bounce into 3rd from 2nd and go right back into 2nd, once warm it won't even act like 3rd exists. It does shift into 1st and reverse and park just fine. From 1st to 2nd it's nice and smooth. Fluid level is proper when cold & in neutral. I've relaxed the kick down cable so it functions just before the pedal is fully pushed to the floor. It's always been slow to take off from 1st when cold, as has my 1985 BMW 524td which has the Zf 4HP22 trany too. I've always felt this was normal as I've owned the BMW since 1988.

I've read many threads on the governor valve. I've tried Pendy's routine of racing the piss out of it, several times, in 2nd gear (4300 rpm's) with no change.

This trany was brand new when installed. It now has 130,000 mile on it. Filled with Mobile 1 Syn from new & changed every ~65,000 miles. The last change was just over 1,000 miles ago & included the 1st filter change too.

Has anyone pulled the governor valve, cleaned it, and can report on those results.
The BMW has over 225, 000 miles on this trany & still runs strong. I'd think such longevity of this trany is possible in our Rovers. The Rover trany gave no trouble until this problem occurred all at once.

I'm inclined to clean the governor valve & possible pull the valve body & clean it too, but thought I'd solicit some input first.
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  #2  
Old July 14th, 2013, 06:22 AM
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What ATF fluid frequency change are you using? My own bias is half manufacturers recommendation.
When I did a full Mobil 1 synthetic change to improve cold changing honestly I wasn't thrilled with the result.
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Old July 14th, 2013, 11:52 AM
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I run cheap ATF every 30k.
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  #4  
Old July 14th, 2013, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
What ATF fluid frequency change are you using? My own bias is half manufacturers recommendation.
When I did a full Mobil 1 synthetic change to improve cold changing honestly I wasn't thrilled with the result.
LR does not specify in any of their materials I have, so I'm using the '85 BMW interval which is 60,000 miles for the same transmission.
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  #5  
Old July 15th, 2013, 08:52 AM
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If you read any of the old owners manuals it states to change fluid every 15k and filter/fluid every 30k. If your tranny has over 45k and the filter has never been done then leave it the hell alone and just dump the fluid once a year unless you are in h2o alot and then change it more often. If it's working fine then don't disturb all the crud inside with a filter change and just change the fluid. In your case it sounds like the governor is sticking due to clutch packs coming apart. By pulling /cleaning the governor is just a "Bandaid". Start look'n for a new tranny. Sorry! Good luck!
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Old July 16th, 2013, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverchef View Post
If you read any of the old owners manuals it states to change fluid every 15k and filter/fluid every 30k. If your tranny has over 45k and the filter has never been done then leave it the hell alone and just dump the fluid once a year unless you are in h2o alot and then change it more often. If it's working fine then don't disturb all the crud inside with a filter change and just change the fluid. In your case it sounds like the governor is sticking due to clutch packs coming apart. By pulling /cleaning the governor is just a "Bandaid". Start look'n for a new tranny. Sorry! Good luck!
Called the LR Dealership service dept here in Reno today. The service mgr tells me that LR recommends changing the trany filter & fluid at 120,000 miles on a '97 D90. That's for the 1st change. I'll bet they get a lot of trany failures shortly after doing that procedure on the Zf 4HP22.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 07:55 AM
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I drain and fill the pan on both the range rovers every year. They really seem to like max life. I was having transmission issues on my classic, wouldn't shift when it was cold. I drained ad filled it, wheeled it for a weekend then changed the filter, like butter ever since. There was a lot of gunk in the filter and the pan. I am sure it will die the next time I drive it.

The guys at the dealership dont have a clue.
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Old July 16th, 2013, 12:11 PM
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Decided to remover the valve body & governor valve. Found a broken spring in the chamber marked with a red dot. I'm working with Gergin at Jaggi Imports in Houston, they are ZF experts. I worked with Gergin back in 2001 when I did my conversion. I'll pull the TC today to get the "governator" out for a cleaning & I'll replace the "O" rings in there too. The ATF was quite "silted-up" for just being 1000 miles old, but I did run it pretty hard (4300 rpm's in 2nd) trying the "Pendy method" of attempting to flush out particles in the "governator" which had no change in transmission function. Fluid doesn't smell burnt, just dirty.
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  #9  
Old July 16th, 2013, 11:25 PM
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I don't think there is a part more deeply buried in the LR to get to than the governor valve in the ZF 4HP22 transmission.

Strip & pull center '97 console, remover transfer case knob & rubber boot, disconnect "E" brake, Drop both drive shafts completely, disconnect T case linkages, remover exhaust pipe/ muffler, disconnect electrical leads to T case (and break one), raise & support engine, remove t case to frame mounts (2 each), remove 6 bolts holding T case to tranny (book says 4), wrestle T case out balanced on my knees as I don't have a tranny jack, discover tranny output shaft bolt is loose (about 1/4") allowing spindle, spacer and governor body to slide rearward thus allowing most forward of 3 square bodied "O" rings to be non-supported by the governaor valve and fly apart ..... AH haa .... I think I found the problem. This was an all day job, but I'm old, and not punching a time card.

Well I did get the governor body out & inspect it seems fine and clean to me but I'm going to send it to Jaggi for a professional inspection anyway along with my valve body.

When I bolted that output shaft in the 12 years ago, I blue Loc-Tite'd it real well. Does anyone know of a better thread lock for AFT situations ?By the head of the bolt goes a rubber O ring so I don't know if you can use a lock washer too
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  #10  
Old July 18th, 2013, 08:46 AM
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Sorry to read you are experiencing the problem Dennis. There are some additives I use in the Diesel transmissions after doing the cleaning and problem sorting you are in the middle of. I think I have posted pictures here before of the products. Will try to add to this later. Many times while the govenor valves appear to be clean they have manged to stick shut. Emery cloth and thorough cleaning seem to have been the answer in the past for me.

Good Luck
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  #11  
Old July 18th, 2013, 08:54 AM
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Thanks for posting this Dennis. I think this will come in handy in the future for others.
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  #12  
Old July 20th, 2013, 03:07 PM
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Reference materials.
This is a large down load. Over 1000 pages that someone took the time to scan in each page so it's kind of cumbersome to get through.
This service manual mostly deals with service of the COMPLETE E28 BMW 5 Series cars of the mid 1980's. The HP and torque of the 2.4TDa (524td) is very similar to our 300Tdi.

It does have a very good section on the 4HP22 transmission. That section is SECTION 24. Be care what you read as far as tear-down, as there are 3 transmission variants in here 3HP22, 4HP22 (mechanical like ours) and the 4HP22 electric valve controlled. The rear of the transmission out put of the BMW version is some what different than that of our D90's but it's entire operation is the same right down to the gear ratio's !

Page 24-2 is an explanation of how the torque converter works
Page 24-3 is an explanation of how the Governor Valve functions
Page 24-101 begins the tear down of the entire transmission.
Page 24-134 thru 139 is the TROUBLESHOOTING the 4HP22 section Probably the best you'll find

http://e28-535i.com/524td/%20Officia...d%20Manual.pdf

I got this from here
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=88207

I have owned 2 of the 1985 524Td's and driven them since 1988 and logged over 410,000 miles on them and never had a transmission issue with these 4HP22's in them.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 11:47 AM
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OK, we're back on the road and here's why this happened.

The bolt on the rear of the transmission that holds on the final output splined shaft came loose of the blue LockTite (#242) that I put it on with 12 years ago. The LockTite gave way allowing the shaft, spacer & governor valve (GV) body to slide rearward. This allowed the most forward 1 of the 3 square "O" rings on the OD body, on which the GV rides to be unsupported & it came apart. Fortunately the O ring debris ended up in the pan filter (all of it accounted for).

So this experience left me asking, "if not blue LockTite then ??" I looked in LockTite's data sheets and saw that #242 is not designed to hold up in ATF but #266 is. Yesterday I ran across an old 1988 RR repair manual regarding the Zf 4HP22 reassembly and it said to use LockTite #263 which is now #270.

So there you have it, #242 will not hold up to ATF. I used the #266 based on the LockTite data sheets which call out the thread-lock to be able to also endure the back and forth forces of the transmission torque as well as the ATF itself.

Good news for you who may have used #242 blue on this bolt. The bolt is accessible from the rear of the transfer case so it is possible to remove that rear round cover, remove the bolt & small "O" ring on it and put on the proper LockTite compound.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 02:00 AM
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Here are some pictures of the various components of the valve body components. Note our Accumulator body looks different with the Hysteresis and DDC/TC openings facing the rear. Note the spring lengths of these 2 openings, IF you reverse them the trany will NOT go into 4th gear LOCK-UP !! Yup, I did that. Thanks to Dave at Ashcroft's, I finally got it operating correctly.
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Old August 7th, 2013, 01:43 PM
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Glad to read you got the rest of the puzzle sorted out Dennis. Great of you to share the information here.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 11:44 AM
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A couple of more valuable resources for the Zf 4HP22 .
If you have an interest in this transmission, I would suggest you go to each site and download the documents to your hard drive as through my research I've learned that item's are not always there that a search will cause you to think they are.

This one is very good includes hydraulic flow diagrams

http://www.jaguarclub.sk/service/pow...n%20-%20zf.pdf

This is older but it's a 1987 Rover RRC, but the troubleshooting part is VERY complete and is what let me to resolve my problem of the reversed springs in the Modulator body. It is a funky download, but stick with it as it is an invaluable resource.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18528256/Z...ic-Fejlfinding

Then there's your other option, like the old AAMCO commercials showed a "Low information voter" states, "Gee boss, I always did want to work on a transmission." !!
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Old March 13th, 2016, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viton View Post
Has anyone pulled the governor valve, cleaned it, and can report on those results.
I have the same question, although different symptoms. Anyone?

In my case, I am experiencing delayed/hard shifts from 1st to 2nd when cold. Afterwards (I think even just the first shift) everything is normal.

Fluid is super clean and at the correct level, with only a few thousand miles on it. The box is a rebuild, with fluid and filter changed every 15k, probably only about 35k or less on it.

I am not sure if this is related, but the evening before it started, I happened to come to a rolling stop with the engine off (ran out of gas on the way home after a weekend of offroading), and might have pushed it into reverse before coming to a complete stop. I did not notice any issue at that time, but it was warmed up at the time.
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Old March 13th, 2016, 09:44 PM
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Hard shifting is could be a result of the shift down cable being attached to the throttle body differently than before the rebuild. Mine has 4 points on which I can attach to one direction gets progressively softer, which allows for a smoother soft shift & wears the clutches more VS the other direction which makes it snap into the next higher gear and wears the clutches less. This cable also makes the down shift faster or slower. Maybe it wasn't put back to the same attachment point after the rebuild. I prefer the harder shift points.

Your'e changing your fluid way too much, 60K is about the right interval & they say if you've gone over 100K without ever changing it, don't ! Fresh fluid at that point will free particles from the clutches which will clog-up the system for a necessary rebuild.
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Old March 14th, 2016, 08:32 PM
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There's also 1 other adjustment on the cable too. There's a ball crimped onto the cable just outside the cable housing, engine end. That ball & the distance to the cable housing end can be adjusted and the distance between the ball & the cable housing end is to be 4 or 5 mm (?). That distance will affect the shifting also. Get a hold of a service book to read about this and how to adjust it. Mine has been set for several years and I don't remember the exacts of setting it.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 05:00 PM
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Keeping in mind this isn't a case of me not changing the oil for 100k and then changing it and immediately having a problem. I have changed the fluid at reasonable intervals and it's been almost 5k since the last one so I don't think that's the cause.

I will check my kick down cable settings but I did set all that up 35k or so ago so I don't suspect that either, and like it said it started suddenly and only happens when the transmission is cold.
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