Yet another Truck Wont start... - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old September 11th, 2006, 01:58 AM
arbik
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Arbi Karapetian
1995 D-90 SW #163/500
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Location: La Crescenta, CA, USA
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Yet another Truck Wont start...

Greetings all,

So I parked the truck last monday, after a long trip, and went to start it tuesday afternoon, and it wont start.

Here are the symptoms:
The truck cranks, but wont start. Doesnt even sound like its trying to start, it just turns.

Here is what I know:

truck has 1/4 tank of gas
There is spark
fuel pump fuse is good
fuel pump relays both work (tested it with a multi meter)
checked the spark plugs, they're bone dry (no flooding)
when I turn on the ignition, one of the underseat relays comes on, then in about 3 seconds, it goes off. The other one just stays on with the ignition switch. I'm assuming this is due to the fuel pump pressurizing the fuel rail to the nominal pressure, and swithcing off the fuel pump. Is this the case? I can hear some things coming on, and off when I turn the ignition key, but I'm not sure if its the fuel pump or other things.

I'm getting ready to drop the fuel tank, and check the fuel pump. Any ideas before I do this?

thanks,

-arbi
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  #2  
Old September 11th, 2006, 09:32 AM
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Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
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You can check the fuel pump by listening to when you first turn on the truck--if you DON'T hear it come on, then I would recheck to make sure it is getting power before you drop your tank (PITA). If you hear it, check the fuel flow at the fuel filter--again, avoid dropping the tank.

Assuming that the fuel pump is working and you have a clean fuel filter, it sure sounds like you are not having your fuel injectors firing. Might want to check them out--there is a wire the runs from your coil to the engine, I THINK but totally not sure, that it is black with a white stripe. Make sure that it did not come off the coil and that the often corroded spade connector is replaced with a soldered on ring connector.

Good luck!
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  #3  
Old September 12th, 2006, 04:08 PM
cameltrophy90
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Dan Pertl
1997 ST D90
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I am now having this exact same problem with my "95 soft top! WTF?!?!?!?!?!? Got good spark at all cylinders, got plenty of fuel right to the rail, but no start! I can only get it to do something if I spray ether in there then it will fire and die. Any ideas? Everything is connected to the coil, I'm out of ideas.
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  #4  
Old September 12th, 2006, 04:28 PM
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draaronr
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Here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameltrophy90
I am now having this exact same problem with my "95 soft top! WTF?!?!?!?!?!? Got good spark at all cylinders, got plenty of fuel right to the rail, but no start! I can only get it to do something if I spray ether in there then it will fire and die. Any ideas? Everything is connected to the coil, I'm out of ideas.
It is your distributor most likely.
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  #5  
Old September 12th, 2006, 04:29 PM
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Robert Dassler
1994 D90
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Eric,
There are 2 identical relays for the fuel injection. One runs the pump & o2 sensor heaters, the other powers the ecu and I think the fuel injector circuits. If that second relay dies (black base) the check engine light will work but there will be no voltage at the fuel injectors with the ignition on. The injectors are supplied with voltage and are bank fired when the ECU supplies ground. That would explain why it fires briefly when you spray into the intake.
I just spent the last hour troubleshooting a D90 with the identical symptoms. A relay fixed it.
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  #6  
Old September 12th, 2006, 05:20 PM
cameltrophy90
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Dan Pertl
1997 ST D90
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Thanks for your reply Rob, I'll look into that. Where are those two relays located? Are they behind that panel with the fuses and stuff?
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  #7  
Old September 12th, 2006, 06:13 PM
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Robert Dassler
1994 D90
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On a 1995 they should be in the underseat box next to the ECU. They are silver with a brown stripe on them. They are special relays with 2 switched contacts. A generic 5 pin Bosch relay will not work. Call one of the established Rover parts suppliers like AB or RN or DAP or whoever...they should be able to get the relays.
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  #8  
Old September 12th, 2006, 09:20 PM
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Hutch
97 AA Yellow D90 ST
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I had a similar problem a couple years ago on my 1995 ST. It WAS one of those relays. I actually found a cheap Hella light relay had the same schematic as the 2 near the ECU. I replaced them and all was well.

ButÖ. Iím now having another issue so I thought Iíd piggy back off this post as it might be a similar issue:

I drove my truck 1 block from my house and it completely died. It literally just died as if I took the keys out. I coasted to a stop and the truck turned back over no problem but the check engine light was on.
Itís now in my garage a will not start. It cranks Ė coil is firing, dash lights on, fuel pump starts up, but it wonít turn over. At one point I did see a code on the OB display near the ecu Ė it was ď03Ē which I canít find on any boards to code listings. I have not seen that code again and the check engine light is not on anymore (I didnít reset it). It *almost* started at one point but it definitely wonít start. I have a nearly brand new alternator FYI.

Any ideas? The wiring in my truck isnít wonderful. I was wondering if something got knocked loose. Iíve checked connections nothing looks disconnected that shouldnít be. I think I should get some new wiring that connects the ignition module to the coil Ė mine looks really bad. Additionally I see 2 relays near the coil (see photo Iíve attached to this post). Notice how bad the contacts are. Would it be worth trying to replace these relays and/or wiring? (Not talking about a full wire harness replacement of course)

Thanks in advance,

Hutch
1995 D90 ST
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  #9  
Old September 13th, 2006, 04:04 PM
arbik
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Arbi Karapetian
1995 D-90 SW #163/500
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Well,

I tested the two relays under the seat, with a multi-meter. When ignition is on, there is voltage on the correct pins on both of them, so I dont think its the relays. What else could it be?
I have fuel, and I have spark, but clearly, there is no fuel in the cylinders as my spark plugs are bone dry. What else should I check?

This is starting to get a bit frustrating, as my D90 is my daily driver, so for the past week. I've been stuck riding the motorcycle everywhere, but I'm running out of groceries

-arbi
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  #10  
Old September 13th, 2006, 04:09 PM
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Jim Ngo
1994 D90 #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbik
Well,
I have fuel, and I have spark, but clearly, there is no fuel in the cylinders as my spark plugs are bone dry. What else should I check?
Clogged fuel filter, bad fuel pump, bad ECU?
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  #11  
Old September 13th, 2006, 04:37 PM
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Read Kerlin
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Arbi,

We could try swapping ECU's this Sunday if you like.

Read
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  #12  
Old September 13th, 2006, 07:29 PM
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hutch
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Hutch
97 AA Yellow D90 ST
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimngo
Clogged fuel filter, bad fuel pump, bad ECU?
I think mine may simply be a clogged fuel filter as well. Going to try to replace that tonight and see what results I get.

To be safe I already ordered a new wiring harness for the remote ignition module that attaches to the coil. I'll probably get a good auto-electrician to make the connections that attach to those relays a bit better as well.

Good luck Arbi,

Hutch
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  #13  
Old September 21st, 2006, 03:51 AM
arbik
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Arbi Karapetian
1995 D-90 SW #163/500
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: La Crescenta, CA, USA
Posts: 175
Not to bump this thread, but just in case someone does a search in the future, here is what the problem was with mine.

Failed Fuel Pump!
I ordered a new one, and it was hellish putting it all back together due to the shortness of the fuel lines, but its in there, and truck is alive again. I also ordered a fuel filter, even though my fuel filter is only a year old, I'm going to replace the fuel filter with a new one, just in case its clogged and its causing the fuel pump to work harder.

Thank for everyone who helped me trouble shoot...
while at it, I painted the skid plate with truck bedliner paint, to protect it against rust.

cheers!!

-arbi
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