Wiring Q: IGN White vs Ground - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 18th, 2015, 12:24 PM
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Wiring Q: IGN White vs Ground

Hello,

I just finished installing a Madman EMS2.

I have a separate "accessories" fuse block that is powered by a relay that is closed when IGN + goes across pin 85 (86 is ground, 30 is 12v and 87 goes to the accessories fuse block).

Yesterday two items on the "accessories block" worked fine (EMS2, Radio).

While trying to set up the EMS 2 I went back and forth on having the oil pressure switch wired to the EMS2 or the dash light.

I planned on disabling the oil pressure function on the EMS2 until I put a T and a pressure transmitter in. I reconnecting the dash light to the oil sender. Then all power to the accessories block was dead.

I started probing around, swapped relays, and still no power through the relay.

There is continuity from ground to the white wire. Is this normal? Looks like it should ground through "battery condition indicator", but I'm not sure.

So with the battery connected and key to position II or run I get :

Pin 30 12v

Pin 85 12v (Off white wire IGN)

Pin 86 has continuity to ground but no voltage

Pin 87 has no voltage

I have tried three different relays.

Why isn't the 12v crossing the relay (85-86)?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old May 18th, 2015, 02:53 PM
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Adam Setliff
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Try flipping 85 and 86. May be a diode in there flowing the wrong way.
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Old May 18th, 2015, 03:46 PM
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Robert Davis
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Oscar:
I do not know if this is a factor, but 85 has always been ground on all the relay's I've worked with and 86 (+) is the switching means.
You have this setup opposite and I am not sure if this is a factor or not, but if when the electro-magnet on the relay is energized the 86 spade has continuity with 30 and 87, then the result is a short that otherwise won't exist when 85 is ground and 86 (+) switching means.

Just looked at some notes I took when using multiple fuel tank sending units to work with a single gauge.
This was performed via a relay that was used with the 30 to 87 or 87a.
In this case the reading from the sending unit was (-) and was not effected by a (+) 86 lead so I think it doesn't matter if 85 is (+) and 85 (-) even though it is commonly the other way around.
So the 85 & 86 must be completely isolated from 30 & 87.
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Old May 18th, 2015, 03:59 PM
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I'll try flipping them. I'm certain I flip those two indiscriminately. I should probably standardize that.

Is the the ignition 12v white wire always grounded? that makes no sense to me, and it is grounded all the way back to the ignition switch which seems odd. for instance all my 12v hot wires don't go to ground but the white one that only gets energized after the key is turned goes to ground? Weird.
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Old May 18th, 2015, 04:24 PM
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Ahhhh Haaaaaaa.
If your white coming off the IG SW is (-) ground, then you have a defective switch because white is always (+) with the switch turned on.
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Old May 18th, 2015, 04:36 PM
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It has continuity to ground. Even with the - battery cable disconnected it has continuity to ground, again I can still read 12v off the white wire. This strikes me as odd, but I'm not an electrical expert. I don't think it should work that way.

FYI everything else that the white wire is supposed to do still works. My fuel pump relay runs off the white wire, the hazard switch, VDO gauge and VDO GPS thingy (by the way none of these items short to ground if checked disconnected from the ignition switch).

So I'm guessing the IGN switch is shorted to ground and this relay is the straw that broke the camel's back? it will power everything else but this one relay won't energize since it has an easier path to ground elsewhere?
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Old May 18th, 2015, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
It has continuity to ground. Even with the - battery cable disconnected it has continuity to ground, again I can still read 12v off the white wire. This strikes me as odd, but I'm not an electrical expert. I don't think it should work that way.

FYI everything else that the white wire is supposed to do still works. My fuel pump relay runs off the white wire, the hazard switch, VDO gauge and VDO GPS thingy (by the way none of these items short to ground if checked disconnected from the ignition switch).

So I'm guessing the IGN switch is shorted to ground and this relay is the straw that broke the camel's back? it will power everything else but this one relay won't energize since it has an easier path to ground elsewhere?
or something downstream of the switch running off the white wire is grounded. maybe you have another relay somewhere running off the white wire, and it's open when active and closed when ignition is off, and being closed when off is grounding it. I would disconnect your switch from the harness and test for ground on the harness white wire to isolate if the ground is from the downstream harness or the switch itself
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Old May 18th, 2015, 06:00 PM
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I disconnected the white wire from the ignition switch and tested it and all my (and factory) wires that stem off of it to ground and nothing, no continuity to ground.

I have added 5 relays, they are all normally open:
- high beam
- low beam
- fog light
- Accessories
- Fuel pump
- replaced an existing flasher relay with the Wipac adjustable one

The switch itself does go to ground at the tab. So that isn't normal? Time for a new switch? The part doesn't look too expensive and seems like 2 screws and small hands will get it out. Maybe I'll see what went wrong when I pull it out.

Do you guys think I have too much tapped into the IGN +? It's mostly just used to trigger other relays so it shouldn't be carrying much of a load. I can get the load to the switch down to one relay that will then power all the IGN + items instead of going through the Ignition switch.

I guess there's always something that needs to be fixed. Despite no "accessories" I just dropped it off to get an oil change and a NYS inspection. hopefully it continues to work in its shorted state until I get a replacement switch or find the fault elsewhere.

My fingers are crossed because this goes back to being my daily when it comes back from the inspection.
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Old May 18th, 2015, 06:19 PM
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Chris Davis
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I don't think white is a ground wire--those are typically black, right? So if you are checking white to ground, you won't get anything...
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Old May 18th, 2015, 06:48 PM
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In some wiring specs white is neg not to be confused with ground. Field ground and neg are sometimes the same especially in automotive but they serve separate purposes.
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Old May 18th, 2015, 06:51 PM
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Im talking about the white wire that provides switched 12v. You can see it coming off the ignition switch:

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Old May 19th, 2015, 09:43 PM
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Are all the ignition switches basically the same?

1994-1995, 1997 Land Rover Defender 90 Ignition Switch - Steering - Lucas 94-95, 97 Defender 90 Ignition Switch - 270-01176983 - PartsGeek
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