Winch Solenoid Comparison Question - Albright - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 24th, 2011, 11:57 AM
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Winch Solenoid Comparison Question - Albright

Does anyone know the difference between the Albright solenoid pack for sale at EE
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/ca...cat=300&page=1

and the Warn contactor (PN 34971 made by Albright for Warn)
http://www.amazon.com/WARN-34971-Con.../dp/B000OV6JKA

I am rebuilding a Warn 8274 and have been considering upgrading/relocating the solenoids in the process. I know that everyone raves about the Albright but didn't know the difference between these two parts that are seemingly the same. According to some folks at Pirate4x4 the Warn model has a higher amp rating (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706197) but I have not seen any actual specs listed anywhere for either


Anyone have any real world experience they offer?
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  #2  
Old March 25th, 2011, 07:35 AM
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Tony Sims
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I ran the Albright (not Warn or Superwinch branded) on my 8274 for a couple years on the RRC. Worked well, no overload problems ever, and it is small and easy to place remote from the winch.

Summit Racing sells them for about $20 less that EE. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPW-90-14452/

It is damn difficult to find the specs on the Warn and Superwinch branded ones. Albright makes these contactors in a range of load ratings, really it doesn't matter what SW or Warn use, all you need to know is the continuous and peak amp load for the winch and you could buy from an electrical parts supplier. They're nothing special, just electric motor controls.
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  #3  
Old March 25th, 2011, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
It is damn difficult to find the specs on the Warn and Superwinch branded ones.
Yeah, that pisses me off no end. It's hard to find it for any of them. "designed for 12v winch" doesn't mean a whole lot. I want to know the actual amp rating and duty cycle of the solenoid.
I don't trust anyone saying, "Yeah, this one will work fine." I want to see the specs so I'll know if it will or not.
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  #4  
Old March 26th, 2011, 03:25 AM
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Albright model numbers here that are commonly used: http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?pa...mart&Itemid=14

The DC88P is 100A continuous waterproof reversing contactor.
http://www.albrightinternational.com...cts.php?ID=587
http://www.albrightinternational.com...catalogue.html
http://www.albrightinternational.com...0CATALOGUE.pdf

------ Follow up post added March 26th, 2011 01:56 AM ------

The PL version has larger contact so will have better contact life when switched at high current.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The DC88P is 100A continuous waterproof reversing contactor.
I've been using 4 200amp continuous duty solenoids in the typical 8274 setup.
I've been considering Albrights, but it would worry me using those. At only 180amp it's down 30% duty cycle and none of my electric winches draw less than 300amps at full load.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 08:11 AM
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You need to look at the amp/time curve in the documents I linked and understand the differences in contactors and solenoids.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 08:51 AM
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Hmmm...must have missed it. Because what I saw was exceedingly low at 300amps. I'll go back and look again later today.
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  #8  
Old March 26th, 2011, 09:42 AM
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Another interesting thread on Pirate.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=633653

I looked up the Albright SW202 and it is a $300+ solenoid with a continuous rating of around 250 amps...seems hard to swallow that kind of an investment when others seem to be getting by with the lower cost units despite lower amp ratings.

On D44's site they also have the Warn Contactor (http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?pa...art&Itemid=14_) so I sent them a message asking about the amp rating and duty cycle. I will post if I get a response.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefhuf View Post
Does anyone know the difference between the Albright solenoid pack for sale at EE
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/ca...cat=300&page=1

and the Warn contactor (PN 34971 made by Albright for Warn)
http://www.amazon.com/WARN-34971-Con.../dp/B000OV6JKA

I am rebuilding a Warn 8274 and have been considering upgrading/relocating the solenoids in the process. I know that everyone raves about the Albright but didn't know the difference between these two parts that are seemingly the same. According to some folks at Pirate4x4 the Warn model has a higher amp rating (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=706197) but I have not seen any actual specs listed anywhere for either


Anyone have any real world experience they offer?
Hi Jeff,

The main differnce in these two contacors is the unit WARN uses (34971) is what we call a triple contactor or protected contactor. What this means is there are three coils, the current always goes thru the #1 coil, then to the power-in or power-out coil. With the protected contacor, if one coil welds itself together, the 2nd will still disconnect and the winch will stop operating. We use these in our Industrial Winches where they are sold into applications where they traditionally get used daily. This contactor is rated 100amps continuous duty, just as RED90 notes in his e-mail.

The expedition exchange contactor and also the HD unit on Devon's site are also rated 100 amps continuous, these have 2 coils. WARN is just now transitioning to this same type of contactor on almost all of the truck winches, this is definately an improvement over the solenoids.

I have been using one of the new contactors on my 8274 since Novemeber, so far so good. I have done a few long heavy pulls and the usual short self recovery pulls to get my D90 unstuck with no issues.

When you look at the amp/time curve graph you will see that a 100 amp continuos duty contactor will operate for about 80 seconds at 400 amps, guaranteed you will burn up a winch motor if you run it at this amperage for this long, that is if your battery can handle this current draw for that long.

Steve.
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  #10  
Old March 28th, 2011, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outfield View Post
Hi Jeff,

The main differnce in these two contacors is the unit WARN uses (34971) is what we call a triple contactor or protected contactor. What this means is there are three coils, the current always goes thru the #1 coil, then to the power-in or power-out coil. With the protected contacor, if one coil welds itself together, the 2nd will still disconnect and the winch will stop operating. We use these in our Industrial Winches where they are sold into applications where they traditionally get used daily. This contactor is rated 100amps continuous duty, just as RED90 notes in his e-mail.

The expedition exchange contactor and also the HD unit on Devon's site are also rated 100 amps continuous, these have 2 coils. WARN is just now transitioning to this same type of contactor on almost all of the truck winches, this is definately an improvement over the solenoids.

I have been using one of the new contactors on my 8274 since Novemeber, so far so good. I have done a few long heavy pulls and the usual short self recovery pulls to get my D90 unstuck with no issues.

When you look at the amp/time curve graph you will see that a 100 amp continuos duty contactor will operate for about 80 seconds at 400 amps, guaranteed you will burn up a winch motor if you run it at this amperage for this long, that is if your battery can handle this current draw for that long.

Steve.
Steve,

Thanks for the info and feedback. Just to clarify, you are using one of the 2-contactor style, right? I believe this is what you were saying but wanted to verify.

That being said, are there any drawbacks to the Warn 34971 (other than the cost) when compared to the units sold at EE, Devon, etc...?
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  #11  
Old March 28th, 2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefhuf View Post
Steve,

Thanks for the info and feedback. Just to clarify, you are using one of the 2-contactor style, right? I believe this is what you were saying but wanted to verify.

That being said, are there any drawbacks to the Warn 34971 (other than the cost) when compared to the units sold at EE, Devon, etc...?
Hi Jeff,

Yes, the new contactor we are transitioning to right now in the truck mounted winches is a two coil contactor like the ones you seen on Devons site and Expedition Exchanges site. So winches like the M8000, XD9000, M12000 etc will all have this contactor. These winches are also getting a new rubber handled remote.

We will continue to use the triple contactor 34971 with our industrial winches. Series 9,12,15 and 18. There are no drawbacks to the 34971 other then cost.
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  #12  
Old March 29th, 2011, 09:25 PM
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Steve - just rebuilt my 8274 this past winter, so very much appreciate your insight here. Thx. Mark
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  #13  
Old March 29th, 2011, 10:28 PM
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Not exactly on topic, but what would be a reasonable price to spend on a used 8274? Maybe a ballpark figure on condition varying from "everything works great" all the way to "this came off my old ass truck and has been outside getting snowed on for the last 20 years so it needs rebuilding."

These seem to go for quite a bit on ebay even though they have certainly seen better days.

Thanks.
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Old March 29th, 2011, 11:21 PM
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I would say based on your description range - 250 to 600. If you have the abilities and inclination, I'd buy one on the lower end of that range, spend the difference in money on rebuild parts, and go through the whole winch so you know what you have. All the parts you need can be bought from Warn. And there are good write-ups on Pirate and IH8MUD. I got a smokin' deal on my winch, rebuilt it with Albright solenoid and 4.6HP motor.
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Old March 30th, 2011, 05:35 AM
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X2 on Mark's advice. 8274's are easy to rebuild and upgrade. I got the one that was on my RRC for $200 at a barn sale, put another $100 or so in parts in it (plus an Albright contactor) and it was like new. A couple tips when you're rebuilding -- add an oil fill plug so you don't have to split the case to change the oil, and drill and tap the shaft so you can put a retaining bolt and washer on in place of the circlip on the brake.
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
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  #16  
Old March 30th, 2011, 07:45 AM
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Tony, I haven't seen the brake shaft mod before. is there a writeup somewhere on that?

Mark, do you notice a significant difference with the 4.6HP motor? I have the original Prestolite motor for mine (haven't used it yet but assume it works!) but was considering a motor upgrade while I am at it. I know that a lot of guys on Pirate rave about the 6HP motors ($300+) but I have also seen some good reviews of the 4.5HP motor from DB Electrical that is under $100. I know that typically "bigger is better" but at the same time, I believe there can be overkill here
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Old March 30th, 2011, 08:11 AM
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I'm with Tom. 4 big honkin Cole Hersee continuous duty solenoids. The ones that are epoxy coated. Dunny done.
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  #18  
Old March 30th, 2011, 08:12 AM
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Jeff, the solenoids are like new and the motor worked fine when I tested it. Quit trying to come up with ways to waste time and money on it - I did so already
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Old March 30th, 2011, 08:20 AM
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Tony, I haven't seen the brake shaft mod before. is there a writeup somewhere on that?
I'm sure there is somewhere, give it a google for "rebuild 8274" or something similar. I may have seen it on Pirate. It's pretty obvious when you look at the winch -- there is a circlip that goes around the shaft and holds the brake on, you just drill and tap an 8mm hole and install a bolt and some washers to hold the brake together instead of the circlip, so the brake cannot spontaneously disassemble.
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
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  #20  
Old March 30th, 2011, 09:44 AM
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Jeff - my intent was to go through it to understand what I had (oil, condition of internals, brake, etc.) and to ensure it was reliable as I had one occasion when it didn't work. WRT to the motor, I decided to replace it and like the defender V8s, it didn't make sense to replace a 4.0 with a new 4.0 when a 4.6 is not that much more in cost.
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