Why oh why (aka broken CV joint) - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old January 16th, 2008, 08:48 PM
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Why oh why (aka broken CV joint)

so I stop on the freeway to help a guy in a 2wd pickup pulling a trailer and terribly stuck in the median with snow past the bottom of his doors. I first hooked up the winch but that just pulled me to him so I left the winch hooked up and hopped in my rig, threw it in reverse and tried to see if I could get him to move pulling that way.... A terrible pop and bang later I could no longer turn left and I could only move with the center diff-loc engaged... yup a blown cv joint. The truck was already running with heavy duty CVs from GBR so what the *$#@! happened?

any speculation? are these things so delicate that I don't dare try to pull someone out for fear of breaking my own truck? was this likely just a (really expensive) fluke with the CV joint? Are there things I should do/try specifically to safeguard my rig if I do try to help someone?

I've gone over it in my mind again and again and I can't imagine not stopping and I can't imagine not at least trying to pull the guy out... but could I have done it in a way that wouldn't have been so expensive (other than handing him a shovel and saying "good luck")?

oh.. and uh... I'm a woman with perfect legs and really big boobs... (okay my wife is does that count?)
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  #2  
Old January 16th, 2008, 09:48 PM
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There is a better way. Your should never use a winch line as a recovery strap, you can easily exceed the rated strength that way. You were in reverse in a 300 TDI with the weight of your truck and the stuck pick up almost entirely on your front axle, no surprise it broke. If you had turned around and used a strap it would most likely not have happened. On a positive note, you can sell the remaining unbroken bits as spares to someone and get a good bit of $$ towards a set of Rovertracks Longfields.

PS. send pic of wife
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  #3  
Old January 16th, 2008, 10:24 PM
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okay thanks...

so let me make sure I have everything straight:

1- don't pull with the winch line (except by the winch of course)
2- don't pull someone in reverse? what if you can't get your butt towards them? SOL?

3- your opinion is that RoverTracks axle/CV kit is better then GBRs axle CV kit? (it's certainly less expensive)



p.s. yea, uh... no
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Old January 16th, 2008, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bharris
any speculation? are these things so delicate that I don't dare try to pull someone out for fear of breaking my own truck? was this likely just a (really expensive) fluke with the CV joint? Are there things I should do/try specifically to safeguard my rig if I do try to help someone?

I've gone over it in my mind again and again and I can't imagine not stopping and I can't imagine not at least trying to pull the guy out... but could I have done it in a way that wouldn't have been so expensive (other than handing him a shovel and saying "good luck")?
YES
YES
NO
YES
YES

That pretty much covers it.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 10:32 PM
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Pull forwards if you can yes. Buried pickup=heavy, tough pull

Yes the Rovertracks kit is the balls, warranteed too.
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  #6  
Old January 16th, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s

YES
YES
NO
YES
YES

That pretty much covers it.
Excellent! that clears things up nicely for me

(although, you know, additional details would be appreciated... just for kicks and giggles and all)
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Old January 17th, 2008, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bharris
Excellent! that clears things up nicely for me

(although, you know, additional details would be appreciated... just for kicks and giggles and all)
Ahh, a good sport. Your not welcome here!

Joking aside,

Yes they are delicate. Rediculously so.
No, it was not a fluke, see above.
There are things you can do when you go to pull. Kevin covered a lot of them. Use a stap, pull foreword, if your CV had held you probably would have blown an R&P on the coast side like that. Tie off and use winch is another option sometimes. But the best thing you can do in the future, is get rid of the rover stuff. If you like to have fun, they just don't cut it. Longs from RT and a toy third is a great option.

Take care,

Buck
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Old January 17th, 2008, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s

But the best thing you can do in the future, is get rid of the rover stuff. If you like to have fun, they just don't cut it. Longs from RT and a toy third is a great option.

Take care,

Buck
That's the part that's killing me, it has heavy duty axles and CVs from Great Basin Rovers, replacing those heavy duty parts cost me almost $900 (plus labor since I was off in never land and didn't have any tools to try to do this myself)... not the type of thing I want to be doing very often and honestly made me wonder about my d90 purchase decision.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 12:24 AM
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Yeah, its a POS. That being said, you'll have no trouble finding someone to take that POS Tdi truck off your hands
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  #10  
Old January 17th, 2008, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
Yeah, its a POS. That being said, you'll have no trouble finding someone to take that POS Tdi truck off your hands


I think I'm just being grumpy because I haven't even had a chance to wheel it yet... I'm sure my mood about it will improve dramatically once I bounce around inside it a bit...

now that I've broken a major part my next goal is to see how stuck I can get it...
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Old January 17th, 2008, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bharris
That's the part that's killing me, it has heavy duty axles and CVs from Great Basin Rovers, replacing those heavy duty parts cost me almost $900 (plus labor since I was off in never land and didn't have any tools to try to do this myself)... not the type of thing I want to be doing very often and honestly made me wonder about my d90 purchase decision.
I understand. I don't think there is a single wheeler on earth who hasn't made a build mistake/regret. Think about it this way, every truck you buy, buggies or built rigs aside, are going to be weak. Jeeps are as bad as we are mostly. It is what it is. Don't regret the purchase. It's a shame about the GBR stuff but "Heavy Duty" is thrown around in the rover world like mud in politics. The problem is, none of it is heavy duty.

I would call Keith, I bet if you sell what you have left in that front end, the cash outlay for a toy swap would be minimal.

Again, don't feel bad. I spent way, way more than you on a mistake. Cheer up!
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  #12  
Old January 17th, 2008, 11:23 AM
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If that had been the _only_ thing that had gone wrong in my first 3 days of owning it I'd probably be in a better mood about the whole thing... (I'm STILL not able to drive it)

my question here really relates to how I should have handled trying to get someone out. I _think_ I understand what I should have done differently now (see above) if anyone has additional suggestions I'd love to hear them.

As far as selling my now new GBR stuff and getting some RoverTracks gear instead... I'm thinking that I need to learn to love my rover first and see what the reality ends up being regarding what I try and make it do (hopefully I won't break anything else during that time ).
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Old January 17th, 2008, 11:40 AM
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What is heavy duty anyway? I've been involved with tanks and bradleys for the last 20 years of my life as an officer in the Army. M1 Abrams tanks throw track constantly, despite efforts to retain the track through engineering. It is almost always due to drivers exceeding the limits and not using good judgement in efforts. Occasionally, the tanks also break a torsion bar (suspension damage) or blow out a final drive (like a CV and hub) also due to rough handling.

Fact is ALL MACHINES have their weaknesses and a good driver knows the limits, excercises preservation driving, conducts constant preventative maintenance and continues to learn best practices.

If someone thinks an M1 tank should be unbreakable, I'm throwing them in the same bucket as the wife that thinks a good car should never need oil or maintenance after purchase.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander

Fact is ALL MACHINES have their weaknesses and a good driver knows the limits, excercises preservation driving, conducts constant preventative maintenance and continues to learn best practices.
THAT is the heart of the question I was trying to ask... what would be the best practices guidlines for trying to pull someone out and how do I keep from exceeding the limits of the rig...

I think that question has largely been answerd now but I would love to hear any additional comments as this whole thing is new to me.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 11:50 AM
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I know. I mentioned it for posterity. I didn't know about not pulling backwards either-now I know.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 11:57 AM
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Frankly, I drive right by people off the road in the snow. Sounds cold I know but I don't want to end up breaking their shit trying to pull them out and getting in trouble. Also don't want to break mine or put myself and my vehicle in a dangerous situation by the roadside in bad weather.

Of course it were old folks I'd assist, but most folks are on their cell phone getting help already.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 12:03 PM
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That is a very good point. Know the sumaritan laws in your state, as helping tow/recover can put liability on your head (imagine the scenario of your winch ripping the bumper off the back of their car before you make any offering). If it is a life threating situation (remote road and no communications) that's a decision point for me.

At a minimum, ask them for a verbal liability waiver (with a witness) before you offer to winch/recover them.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 12:17 PM
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I fully understand not stopping for people, but the number of places that cell phones don't work (especially up in the hills) is amazingly high and batteries tend to die in bad weather and at the worst times possible... on the other hand the number of reasons NOT to stop continues to grow so almost no one does any more.

I'm trying to maintain a personal policy of always stopping just to make sure that at least help is coming and I'm here trying to figure out how to do that without putting anything at risk (here, at least, I'm really talking about putting my precious little overpriced rover parts at risk)
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Old January 17th, 2008, 12:42 PM
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Interesting thread. I tend to think of snowbound recovery as more of a strain on chassis components than the drivetrain. Best not to dump the clutch when you are doing this type of work (ever really) rather smooth engagement with varying degrees of "snatch" on the strap depending on the situation. I run a 109 with stock axles and drivetrain. Never broke anything during a recovery operation.

Mind you since this is the second time I've mentioned that fact, I am surely going to break something next time out.

And to be fair I don't do much rock crawling, which seems to be the quickest route to equipment failure. But we are talking about roadside recovery. Brad, does your vehicle have the stock tire size?

rgrds
dave
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Old January 17th, 2008, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching
<snipage>

Brad, does your vehicle have the stock tire size?

rgrds
dave
what are you going to make me list all the things that probably contributed to the extra strain on the joint?

no, not stock tires (although not too far off), 255/85R16
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