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  #1  
Old May 25th, 2004, 07:38 PM
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Michael Howell
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Which synthetic winch rope is...

...best? I want to replace the ss cable with rope. I'm currently looking at MasterPull and Amsteel-Blue - they seem compartively priced and rated. The new warn product seems way overpriced at ~$600. Any comments/ideas/suggestions?
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  #2  
Old May 25th, 2004, 07:53 PM
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I've heard Amsteel and that's what I'll get when I upgrade.
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  #3  
Old May 25th, 2004, 07:56 PM
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I've got MasterPull 3/8" x 125'. I have a 9000# winch and probably wen't a little over kill on the line. So far no complaints other that I have to power out the first 2 wraps of the drum before I can freespool it.
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  #4  
Old May 25th, 2004, 08:14 PM
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Amsteel blue

I've had the Amsteel blue on my warn 8274 for just over a year and have been very happy with it. It's UV resistance and easy to care for. Try the guys at http://www.rockstomper.com/ . They seem to have the best price around.
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  #5  
Old May 25th, 2004, 10:00 PM
Eric Siepmann
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Off Road only. Nice stuff. Ordering next month. The Warn is expensive because it can melt under the right conditions. Huskies avoid this problem....


http://www.offroadonly.com/products/recovery/x-line/

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  #6  
Old May 25th, 2004, 11:28 PM
redrover

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Facts

There are a few things to know and follow when using a synthetic rope on a Warn winch. First off, Warn will tell you that you need their rope, -Bull_ _ _ _ . Second off and MOST IMPORTANT, as long as you don't power out the rope, you will not cook ,burn, or dry out your synthetic line. Always free spool the line out to your anchor. Warn winches use a cone brake that tansfers quick heat to the drum when powering out. Thirdly, most manufacturers of synthetic line will recommend a minimal number of raps around the drum, follow their advise. Forth, use a alluminum fairlead. I had a smooth roller lead and it was hard on the line. No visible wear since I installed alluminum lead. Most ropes come with a ten ft section of webbing that can be possitioned above abraisive surfaces. If your winch uses 5/16x125ft cable, I would buy a 5/16x125ft rope or 3/8x100ft rope. Anything bigger might pack up in winch and require you to power the line out . I know roverworx also has great prices.
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  #7  
Old May 26th, 2004, 11:35 AM
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OK guys! Amsteel is A trade name for Dyneema [sk-60] [5/16 9,800]. This stuff can be bought pretty cheep! The ONLT thing you are paying for is the I splice, thimble & maybe some cover [chafe guard] The I splice is VERY easy to do yourself. I make high performance lines sheets & halyards for racing sail boats, & have made my own! I prefer Ultrex [sk-75] [5/16 13,500 lbs!] for the few extra pennys it is worth the extra 2000lbs. The next time I am doing some rigging I will post pic's on the splice. I would not use a chafe guard unless it floted on the line & you could place it were you wanted. if you have a spot were there is some chafe apply some WATER based poly & that should protect it . I could go on further but I hope this helps shed some light.
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  #8  
Old May 26th, 2004, 11:50 AM
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NICE Peter! And if you don't mind do a write up on how to put a splice in the rope. I used to splice regular rope in the Boy Scouts but I think this is a little different. Oh and on a quick google I found this http://store.catsailor.com/tek9.asp?...ific=jscpemirm.
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  #9  
Old May 26th, 2004, 01:34 PM
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Peter Sherman
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Mike the stuff you were looking at is covered! This is not.

Ultrex 12 - Yale


This single-braid of SK-75 Dyneema offers a hard-to-beat combination of properties. SK-75 has low creep and is good for high static-load jobs like upwind halyards. The fiber is UV-stable and abrasion resistant. The MaxiJacket coating further enhances both of these "natural" properties. Dyneema does not absorb water, so it stays lightweight. One of the easiest to splice of all our single braid lines. For better handling and cleating we can cover all or part of the Ultrex with a polyester jacket.

Common applications (uncovered): Primaries in cascades, vangs, traveler bridles, trapezes on dinghies. Great as a wire replacement.
Common applications (covered): Lightweight sheets for big boats, all halyards, tack lines.

Spliceable: Yes Full Spools: 500' & additional 10% off
Size Tensile
Strength Weight in
Lbs/100 ft
Inches mm
5/32 34 3,150 0.8
3/16 5 5,250 1.1
1/4* 6 9,600 1.7
5/16* 8 13,500 2.8
3/8* 10 20,000 3.3
7/16* 11 25,700 4.3
* Available in gray only



YCUTX532B Ultrex 5/32" Blue $0.58 YCUTX532GR Ultrex 5/32" Green $0.58
YCUTX532GY Ultrex 5/32" Grey $0.58 YCUTX532R Ultrex 5/32" Red $0.58
YCUTX316B Ultrex 3/16" Blue $0.76 YCUTX316GR Ultrex 3/16" Green $0.76
YCUTX316GY Ultrex 3/16" Grey $0.76 YCUTX316R Ultrex 3/16" Red $0.76
YCUTX14B Ultrex 1/4" Blue $1.08 YCUTX14GR Ultrex 1/4" Green $1.08
YCUTX14GY Ultrex 1/4" Grey $1.08 YCUTX14R Ultrex 1/4" Red $1.08
YCUTX516B Ultrex 5/16" Blue $1.77 YCUTX516GR Ultrex 5/16" Green $1.77
YCUTX516GY Ultrex 5/16" Grey $1.77 YCUTX516R Ultrex 5/16" Red $1.77
YCUTX38B Ultrex 3/8" Blue $2.18 YCUTX716GY Ultrex 7/16" Grey $3.28
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  #10  
Old May 26th, 2004, 01:43 PM
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Great! Thanks!
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  #11  
Old May 27th, 2004, 10:31 AM
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If you want some good info on synthetics go to WWW.Ruftraks.co.uk and look at inspection guidelines and some of their other info.

I use synthetic rope on my Warn 9000 but I am VERY careful about winching out under load and I inspect my rope often.

I try to avoid the need to power out but occasionaly I find myself with no other options.
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  #12  
Old May 27th, 2004, 01:16 PM
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There are several ways to beat the heat, if you are worried about it! [Carry some water] You can have a small section of cable butt splice into your rope for around the drum. You can have a small piece of poly cover made, or a small section of Vectran butt spliced or even Kevlar for around the drum. The nice thing about this line IS you can cut it & splice in a new section!!!!!!!!!! SO if it melts fix it its cheap!! If you fray your cable you could splice it but it is not NOT easy. There are all kinds of options. My recomendation is talk to a professional rigger and have them build what you want! I would offer to make lines for people but there is an insurance issue that I am conserned with.
I would probly charge 190-250 for 100' of 5/16 depending on options.
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  #13  
Old May 27th, 2004, 01:57 PM
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Thanks Peter, the cable spliced onto the synthetic sounds like the best way to go. I guess some sort of loop to loop connection. I don't think wetting the drum is practicle.

How does the poly cover keep the rope from getting too hot? Are Vectran and Kevlar heat resistant?
If it melts the rope may be cheap to splice back togather but the potential danger of the melt is not.

Wouldn't a situation that would fray a steel cable also fray the synthetic even faster?

Don't get me wrong, I love my synthetic rope for a lot of reasons but I just don't see it as the cure all. I don't know exactly how hot the drum on my winch gets but I am sure that when winching out under load it gets well over the 150 degrees at which degradation begins.

It might be the best answer if used with a winch that doesn't use an internal brake. Please don't get me wrong, these are just questions I ask myself when I use the winch rope with my existing winch.
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  #14  
Old May 27th, 2004, 05:35 PM
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Rope

Hi Randy, Imo , the rope is all benefits with the exception of power out melting. I four wheel with a five year old , and the no back lash safety is a plus. Once you have seen enough steel cable failures, I bet you would never consider steel again. I have seen a couple steel failures , and it was a miracle no one was hurt by the back lash. The syn ropes just dont store elastic energy during a pull. When a rope failes, it will drop to the ground. Also the tensile strength is greater on the rope for each corresponding dia. Another beni is being able to easily wrap the syn rope around your bumper instead of always rewrapping between pulls. I dont Know how reliable a inline splice would be as compared to the ropes strength rating. But you can always send it to a shop and have it converted into extentions. I dont think there is one compitition body out there that allows wire on the course. I dont know anyone that uses a syn rope more than B Burke. Call him and see what kind of wear he sees with max use. JP

Ps I heard warn was selling their rope for 600 bucks , thats insane. Anyway I bet others will offer a first layer buffer in the near future.

Didnt there used to be a spell ck somewhere?
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  #15  
Old May 27th, 2004, 06:14 PM
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Peter Sherman
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Randy, a wire to rope splice is very complicated. The cover will keep the line off the drum& the drum being steel transfers the most heat. vectram & Kevlar DON"T melt. All you will need is the 1 or 1,2 layers of line. Any line that you use will chafe. You can try to pad the places it will chafe by adding a moveable cover or use a blanket on rocks ect. Also, A proper butt splice is stronger that the rope because it has two layers of line.JP is right on with the stored energy. MASS TIMES VELOCITY= ouch
Dyneema does not stretch like cable. I have been next to line that let loose in pops but won't take off your head! JP the inline splice is VERY strong!!! As long as it is done the right way!!! I will try to post some pics as I have a halyare job comeing up & I may make a winch rope for a friend!
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  #16  
Old May 28th, 2004, 05:11 PM
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JP, I use synthetic for all the reasons you mentioned plus the fact that it doesn't get fish hooks (burrs) and it's lightweight.

I was wheeling Moab two weeks ago with Bill B. and unless I misunderstood him he said someone was comming out with a planetary gear winch with an external brake.

I use a heat shield over my rope at the drum and a chaffe gaurd loose on the running line. I think it is the PMI? chaffe gaurd and seems to be the best I have seen.

I just don't buy the idea that the heat shield can keep it from overheating at the drum. It goes against common sense. Maybe it is out there someplace but I haven't seen any testing that supports the idea. Although I recall only one story of a synthetic melting because of power out winching. Looks like we would hear more if is a serious problem.
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  #17  
Old May 29th, 2004, 08:57 AM
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I should have paid more attention to the chit-chat page. Joe P says the Superwinch EP9000 is compatable with synthetic ropes. (external brake)

I am pretty sure this is the one Bill B recommended a couple of weeks ago when I was wheeling with him in Moab.

But I don't see it on the Superwinch website.
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  #18  
Old May 31st, 2004, 01:57 PM
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I have a MasterPull 5/16" line on a Warn XD9000. The heat problem I have is not with the wraps on the first layer on the drum but rather any wrap that touches the sides of the drum. Those sides are thinner than the drum itself and act as a heat sink. They burn through the rope rather quickly. I solved the problem with some nylon spacers but at the expense of drum capacity. Nobody else has the same issue so I'm not sure if they don't power out the winch any or what but it certainly is a concern for me. We power out the winch line under load often when lowering a vehicle from some "predicament" or "pickle". It does not take much to burn the rope. Of course, worm gear or spur gear winches don't have this issue.
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