when engine off..flooding? HELP - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 19th, 2006, 01:58 PM
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when engine off..flooding? HELP

Hey Guys I have a wierd one.
(94 d-90 3.9l stock except for mallory)
Running fine the day before (well just OK), then let her sit overnight. I went to move her in the garage to do some work on her today and wouldn't start. I smelled gas. Popped the hood and turned the key to the "on" position before starting and after a few seconds I hear the fuel pump start to go and what sounds to me like ALL the injectors are squirting. Cant tell if it is all of them but it sure sounds like it, loud for the entire area under the plenum. It is definatly flooding, there is a lot of gas in the cylenders. I tried to disconnet the ECU ant let her sit for a while, no help. Also no Check engine light.

I don't know what to do next here? any ideas?
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  #2  
Old April 19th, 2006, 02:05 PM
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Unplug the injectors and listen for the sound, if it goes away I would be surprised, if it doesn't go away I think there is a leak in the fuel, but to be honest I have never heard the injectors firing? The ECU does not fire the injectors unless it is getting a signal from the coil ( a pulse), and the only way you can get that to happen is to rotate the distributor.
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Old April 19th, 2006, 02:32 PM
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just tried doing that right after I started the thread. The noise changes when all infectors disconnected. There is a buzzing and the injectors are not ticking. Whe re connected there is buzzig and ticking.

I used a hose in the ear bit to try to narrow the sound down. When the injectors are disconnected the buzzing comes from the back part of the distributer. When the injectors are connected they tick very quickly and you can actually feel the injector vibrating.

If I disconnect the coil the injectors continue to tick but the coil now buzzes

There is so much gas being dumped in when the engine is off that it is dripping out exaust manifold gasket.

Every time I go to test it it takes approx. 10 seconds fo the noises to start. So I turn the key and wait untill the buzzing.

Thsi is wierd... do you think the coil is shot and shorting, it is a reasonably new MSD blaster.
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Old April 19th, 2006, 02:43 PM
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Sounds like something is messed up in the distributor or Coil, I would not continue letting it run like this for any amount of time as i would be worried about screwing up the ECU. I wrote out the procedure for checking the stock coil and distributor that is in the NAS manual in this thread, it is post # 11

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ead.php?t=5559

I am not sure if everything in the procedure is the same for the Malory setup but it is something to start with.
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Old April 19th, 2006, 02:49 PM
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I'm worried about the ECU too mike, It cant be good for it to be doing that also worried about the damn thing catching on fire, there is a lot a fuel and who knows whats sparking!

What should the output (white wire?) from the coil be reading?
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Old April 19th, 2006, 02:57 PM
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I belive it should be 1 volt max
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Old April 19th, 2006, 03:11 PM
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Everything seems to be functioning normally while attempting to start (disatributer-coil). The problem only happens when the truck is let sit wiht the key in the "on" position. it is definatly squirting fuel, and causing spark, but not rotor rotation (obviously).

Is there any protocal for testing the ECU? these things are pricy
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Old April 19th, 2006, 03:16 PM
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Interestingly(i guess), mine does only occassionally and usually when it has been parked on an incline with the nose up. I don't get the buzzing or gas leakage but it definitely smells flooded and will not start. I usually have to wait more than a few minutes before she will fire up.

When it first started, I replaced the fuel filter and the problem seemed to go away for the winter months but it just happened again this weekend.

I just got back from a 4,000 mile round the country trip and it never missed a beat. Guess I should check my electrics just for fun and education.
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Old April 19th, 2006, 03:27 PM
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The only reason I could think of is that for some reason the ECU thinks the engine is turning. It might be that the signal wire from the distributor is grounding out, or that the ignition module is shorting out. I'd start inspecting the wiring in the vicinity of the coil and distributor.

Is it a Mallory Distributor in there? Have you tested the module yet?
http://www.centuryperformance.com/mallory/unitest.asp

-Hans
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Old April 19th, 2006, 04:55 PM
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thanks for the link Hans.

I'll run through that tonight. I was thinking the same thing about the wire grounding but I cant seem to find a problem. and the funny thing is that it is consistant. no fluctuations like you would expect if it was arcing and giving an un even signal.

While testing I accidentally turned it over and it was so flooded that the compression stoped the starter...bad. I wonder if I have gas in my oil now and if the starter is going to take a crap http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...cons/icon8.gif
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Old April 19th, 2006, 05:01 PM
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While you're trying to figure it out, maybe you should pull the fuse for the fuel pump to help keep things on the safe side. I'd even say possibly pull the power wire off the ignition coil too, and crank it for a good 10-15 seconds or more to try and blow some of that out of the cylinders.

-Hans
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Old April 19th, 2006, 05:09 PM
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I had a problem with a carbureted Camaro with bad flooding problems. I let it go long enough that it did thin my oil enough to spin all of my main bearings.

I don't know how this compares to fuel injection but it seems injection would make the problem worse since it is pressurized.
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Old April 19th, 2006, 05:23 PM
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Pull the plugs and turn it over. See if gas pumps out of the cylinders. Then also, empty the oil pan
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Old April 21st, 2006, 06:50 PM
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So, I changed the module and it seemed to do the trick... no more flooding, no more spark while the engine off.

Now. I let her warm up then, shut her off. let sit a bit, then drove her around the block. Idle was horrible but ran great. turned her off and now it won't start. there is spark at the coil. it turns but it is not catching at all.
any suggestions?
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Old April 21st, 2006, 07:06 PM
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Have you pulled the plugs to check them out? With that much fuel in the cylinders, they may be fouled up bad and need a cleaning.

-Hans
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Old April 21st, 2006, 08:49 PM
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Hans...They were all shot... I replaced them when I did the module.

Follow-up Post:

Also, I just tested the photo cell and it gives 12v when blocked or unblocked. This is a new module, is it possible I blew it already? Wierd part is I have spark from the coil when I turn it over. The truck ran for 15min total on the new module.

Follow-up Post:

Well... the photo cell module switches now that the truck has cooled down... what gives?
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Old April 24th, 2006, 06:38 PM
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well, its not teh photo cell... it turns out to be the injection control module (ERR-4943). It fires when tapped on, so I'm pretty sure it is shot. Any ideas on where to get a used one?

P.S. This sucks.
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Old April 24th, 2006, 09:23 PM
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Tried CarCannibal.com? It's a LR wrecking yard. Dunno how their prices are though.

-Hans
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Old April 25th, 2006, 07:25 AM
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Try Will Tillery. You can find him on www.discoweb.org. Rovercannibal is inconsistent, at best.
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Old April 25th, 2006, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Vick
Try Will Tillery. You can find him on www.discoweb.org. Rovercannibal is inconsistent, at best.
Rovercannibale can be good if you talk to the right person, talk to Corey Flores, Corey at ( CarCannibal.com ) he knows his stuff.
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