Wheel hub bearings and swivel pin overhaul advice - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old November 16th, 2017, 01:06 AM
Vedrover
Status: Offline
Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Greater Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 121
Wheel hub bearings and swivel pin overhaul advice

The wheel hub bearings on my front axle are now gone and need to be replaced. Everything but the pads seems to be original 1988 parts. Therefore, while I'm at it I will be also installing:
  • New calipers
  • New rotors and pads
  • New hubs (to save me a trouble of trying to remove old rusty ones from equally rusty rotors and then also getting the old bearing out to install new ones)
  • New brake hose from caliper to newly installed braided SS hose
  • New mud shields (old ones are rusted through in some spots)
  • New bolts and plugs all around

Also, LHS swivel seems to be leaking pretty bad and RHS is leaking a bit, so that also must be done. I figured I'd do both sides at the same time, while I'm at it.
My swivels are original chromed ones and seem to be OK as far as the eye can see without taking them apart, no corrosion or pitting, a couple of really minor surface gouges that don't seem to be causing issues and that`s all. I`d like to keep them, as I`ve heard most of the aftermarket ones are not that great...

So, I will rebuild both swivel pins. Britpart OEM kit contains Timken bearings and Corteco seals (so none of Britpart crap really), and that's what I intend to go with, unless there are better options?
  • Should I replace CV joints while I'm at it? Or leave them in unless there's signs of substantial wear on them? How's Bearmach quality? (Yes, I know Ashcroft is best but I can't afford them right now).
  • Should I replace stub axles as well or only if they're worn?
  • Am I missing anything else?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old November 16th, 2017, 08:41 AM
michael67's Avatar
michael67
Status: Offline
Michael White
110 Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dripping Springs, Texas
Posts: 342
I did this about 6 years back. Just a few thoughts:

- Make sure your swivel balls are corrosion-free. One of mine was corroded, so now I have one chrome and one teflon. I don't think chrome is available any more.
- There's a seal holder on the back of the swivel ball. Mine was usable but badly corroded (probably as bad as your mud shields), so you may want to order a couple of you're ordering stuff like that anyway.
- Take apart the CV joints and look for wear, you'll need the big dead-weight hammer from Home Depot. If they've been kept in oil/grease, they should be fine. There's not normally a lot of movement in this joints, just when turning.
- Stub axles should be fine unless worn or damaged sometime in the past. They're just a chunk of steel.
- Buy some spacers for the swivel pins - you'll need them for tension adjustment.
__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the
black flag and start slitting throats." - H. L. Mencken
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old November 16th, 2017, 08:52 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,230
Registry
If you are doing new calipers and rotors, then you might as well change to vented rotors and the later style calipers and pads. The cost is the same and the newer stuff will be easier to source as time goes by. Stay OEM on seals, bearings, calipers and pads.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old November 16th, 2017, 09:08 AM
Factoid's Avatar
Factoid
Status: Offline
Mark
Three criminals seeking revenge
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Antonio, TX/Putnam Valley, NY
Posts: 665
Registry
You are a wise man to stay away from Britpart seals. Since it sounds like you are retaining the swivel housings, ensure they are completely clean and all traces of silicone removed from the swivel seal groove and gasket/sealer from the flange where the stub axle mounts as these are the two biggest leakers. Test fit the new swivel seal carefully. If it appears to fit snuggly, don’t press it all the way in as you won’t be able to remove it without destroying it. My first set (Britpart) barely fit and were so loose you could rattle them around in the groove and they fell out as soon as I let them go.

Test how the seals fit against the swivel ball. You should have to press them with your fingers against the ball in order for the seal to seat completely, watching the seal lip flex by a couple mm’s to form a tight seal. Any corrosion, pitting, or scratches are potential leaks, however the bigger problem is they act like sandpaper on the seal and may not leak immediately, but cause you to wonder what happened a few months later. Grease the inside lip of the seal and use silicon sealer on the outer diameter of the swivel seal just before you install it and torque the retainer for the final time. Make sure you use the spring gauge to set your swivel bearing preload to get the right shims and use blue locktite on the bearing retainer bolts. Use gasket sealer/adhesive on both sides of all the gaskets and you may never have to do this job again.

One final point, use a thread chaser on the five bolt holes that retain the drive flange. I made one by taking an old bolt and cutting 3 or 4 grooves length wise with a cut off wheel and running a nut up and down it several times to deburr it. Chase all the holes removing as much of the old sealant/locktite as possible and use blue locktite on all the bolts. And then wait 24 hours before filling the swivel housings with oil/grease and driving.

Good luck, I find these projects very rewarding when nothing leaks!
__________________
1976 Series III 109 "Montoya" ("You killed my father, prepare to die")
1988 Defender 90 LHD "Vizzini" (speed demon from Sicily)
1987 Defender 90 MOD LHD "fezzik" (giant rock thrower)
1975 Porsche 911 hot rod
1964 Porsche (Beck) 904
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old November 16th, 2017, 11:22 AM
Naplm00
Status: Offline
Matthew
1983 110 200tdi 3 door soft top
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,858
I think you are wasting money buy buying new hubs, they aren't a wear item. You would be better served buying new balls if to your are showing wear. Removing races takes all of ten minutes with a wooden board, hammer and a punch.

Use new Timken set37 wheel bearings and a hq grease.

Personally id also stay with solid rotors, but if you are replacing everything vented isn't much more money.

When you preload the swivel pins like to make it t Slightly tighter than the 7ftlbs that the manual calls for, both the bearing type and railco bush type will seat after a few miles and take up that extra snugness

Lots of great info above



Ps if you do pull the hubs don't trash them, they can be sold to someone doing a rear disc conversion
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 16th, 2017, 07:12 PM
Vedrover
Status: Offline
Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Greater Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 121
Thanks, everyone for your great advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
I think you are wasting money buy buying new hubs, they aren't a wear item. You would be better served buying new balls if to your are showing wear. Removing races takes all of ten minutes with a wooden board, hammer and a punch.

Ps if you do pull the hubs don't trash them, they can be sold to someone doing a rear disc conversion
I know they are a solid hunk of metal. My concern was how much time I was going to spend detaching them from the rotors. I will be doing the rear axle disk brake conversion eventually.
So, the plan is: if I can get the existing ones off relatively easy, good, I'll reinstall them. Otherwise I'll install new ones now and then spend some quality time freeing the old hubs from the rotors and old bearings to reuse on the rear axle in the future. Since the truck sat in the bonded warehouse for 3 years and lived most of its life at the UK shore, there`s lots of rust on these components and they will most likely put up a decent fight...
As far as balls go, the Britpart kit I plan to order comes with Timken bearings and Corteco seals but Britpart teflon balls. If mine will come out worse than they look, I will have the Britpart ones available. I'm really hesitant to install them, as I heard they break. But then the Bearmach ones break too and Allmakes break too. OEM Land Rover ones are $370 a piece and are also teflon-coated nowadays, are they really worth the extra $$?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 16th, 2017, 07:35 PM
Naplm00
Status: Offline
Matthew
1983 110 200tdi 3 door soft top
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,858
Will take 2min per side after removing the bolts to get the discs off, big ass hammer, done.

Teflon balls are fine, I rebuilt my front axle last year with them. No issues.

My chrome balls were pitted so replacement was needed.

I'd bet that the britpart and oem land rover ones come from the same factory... I've ever seen one post about a swivel ball breaking...


To easily remove the rotors from the hubs just use a 13mm 12pt socket and a impact gun, they zip right off. Anyway why spend all that upfront if you have a chance of getting them off no problem?

FYI the swivel ball kits don't come with the ball to axel bolts, these usually need replacing
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old November 16th, 2017, 07:53 PM
Vedrover
Status: Offline
Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Greater Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 121
Thanks, Naplm00. For hubs, it's the bolts I'm concerned with, whether they strip off (at the head or, worse off, strip the hub thread) or not.
If they do, I'll have hubs at hand to install right away vs. ordering them and waiting another 2-3 days to get them and paying higher shipping cost. They are a $80 item and I will need them anyway a couple years down the road when I get to the rear axle.
I was scared off by than one post you mention, you`re right, google knows of no other instances, so, if my original chrome balls won`t work, then I`ll install the new ones.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old November 16th, 2017, 08:03 PM
Naplm00
Status: Offline
Matthew
1983 110 200tdi 3 door soft top
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,858
Cool man, good luck.! I'm kind of a cheap ass when it comes to this stuff, hence the opinion here.


If you are definitely going to do a disc swap In the rear then might as well get fresh ones, bolts, ect.

Fyi you can sometimes save on shipping and get rotors and bearings from rockauto and Amazon

Have a good chisel on hand and a long round punch to r&r the bearing races.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old November 17th, 2017, 05:46 PM
Gren_T's Avatar
Gren_T
Status: Offline
Gren Thomas
1985 90 300tdi auto
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: bridgend, wales , UK
Posts: 413
Make sure you get new bolts all round, also check the fit and mark the swivel seal retainer - you dont want to fit the swivel, set the tension and bolt up the seal retainer to find its the wrong way around.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old November 17th, 2017, 06:15 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,526
Registry
I'm in the cheap camp - I personally wouldn't bother replacing them.

if you absolutely must get new hubs and stubs, keep the old ones for spares.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old November 17th, 2017, 09:52 PM
Vedrover
Status: Offline
Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Greater Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 121
So after putting up everything into an basket on LRDirect.com I cheaped out and removed hubs and CV joints for now, will get them only if I really need them. I keep forgetting I moved provinces and what used to be 5% sales tax is now 14% for me, so the cheap-ass side of me prevailed after seeing the total...
All new bolts, seals and retainers, new vented rotors, calipers, pads, brake lines, bearings, mud shields and brackets. All together over 50 various items in a cart. I now remembered why I didn't want to do it initially :-) All parts are now on order and I'll complete the rebuild, hopefully, next week. Thanks, everyone, for your great advice!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old November 23rd, 2017, 10:19 PM
ghoregon
Status: Offline
Greg H
1984 Defender 90 Ex-MoD
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Richmond, VA, USA
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
If you are doing new calipers and rotors, then you might as well change to vented rotors and the later style calipers and pads. The cost is the same and the newer stuff will be easier to source as time goes by. Stay OEM on seals, bearings, calipers and pads.
Rimmer Bros is doing a 17% off Black Friday promotion so I'm thinking of buying the parts needed to switch my '86 Ex MoD 90 over to vented discs. Are these the right calipers, rotors, & pads for my truck? I don't want to spend a bunch of money and accidentally order the wrong bits. Are there any other parts needed for the conversion? Thanks!

Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old November 28th, 2017, 09:46 AM
Vedrover
Status: Offline
Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Greater Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghoregon View Post
Rimmer Bros is doing a 17% off Black Friday promotion so I'm thinking of buying the parts needed to switch my '86 Ex MoD 90 over to vented discs. Are these the right calipers, rotors, & pads for my truck? I don't want to spend a bunch of money and accidentally order the wrong bits. Are there any other parts needed for the conversion? Thanks!

Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk
Sorry, just saw this. Those are the P/Ns for Calipers and Rotors that I bought for my 1988's conversion. You might need caliper bolts too, if you can't reuse the old ones. I went with all new bolts all around, so I got them.
There is a Land Rover parts manual that you can download that has all the P/Ns together with parts diagrams.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old November 30th, 2017, 02:25 PM
Vedrover
Status: Offline
Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Greater Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 121
F@$#ing Britpart!

So I hit a snag that I didn't see coming and couldn't see until assembly was mostly completed and I was installing the stub axle:
The new swivel pins (Britpart OEM) are much thicker on the edge than the original ones. Good, right, makes them sturdier, right?


No, not really, now the stub axle doesn't fit - when fully installed and the swivel is turned, the inside of the stub axle with the bushing hits the edge of the swivel pin and stops it form turning. I probably won't even be able to get more than one turn of a steering wheel in any direction, if that - so straight driving only for me from now on. F$#@!


Curious if anyone ran into the same issue and how it was resolved, is there another stub axle that will work on it?

Email to Britpart Tech Support sent as well.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old November 30th, 2017, 02:36 PM
Naplm00
Status: Offline
Matthew
1983 110 200tdi 3 door soft top
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,858
Not sure what I'm looking at here but the swivel pin shouldn't even come close the the cv.

I do see however that you do not have the cv fully seated in the outer spindle. Since I out have the early bronze blush type it may take a wacky with a mallet to seat

You may have to put the spindle on the cv then insert into the axle
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old November 30th, 2017, 02:37 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,230
Registry
Something is not right. You have the CV fully inserted into the stub axle? It has to be inserted and axially retained to be at the right spot for not hitting anything.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old November 30th, 2017, 04:30 PM
Factoid's Avatar
Factoid
Status: Offline
Mark
Three criminals seeking revenge
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Antonio, TX/Putnam Valley, NY
Posts: 665
Registry
Index your axle until you can push it all the way in.
__________________
1976 Series III 109 "Montoya" ("You killed my father, prepare to die")
1988 Defender 90 LHD "Vizzini" (speed demon from Sicily)
1987 Defender 90 MOD LHD "fezzik" (giant rock thrower)
1975 Porsche 911 hot rod
1964 Porsche (Beck) 904
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old November 30th, 2017, 05:38 PM
Vedrover
Status: Offline
Alex
1988 Land Rover 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Greater Montreal, QC, Canada
Posts: 121
All in now after some wiggling and persuasion, fits and works as it should. I must've been having a moment...
I retract my false accusations of Britpart. Their OEM kit is actually quite good
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old November 30th, 2017, 07:35 PM
Factoid's Avatar
Factoid
Status: Offline
Mark
Three criminals seeking revenge
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: San Antonio, TX/Putnam Valley, NY
Posts: 665
Registry
Nicely done!

I maintain my position on Britpart.
__________________
1976 Series III 109 "Montoya" ("You killed my father, prepare to die")
1988 Defender 90 LHD "Vizzini" (speed demon from Sicily)
1987 Defender 90 MOD LHD "fezzik" (giant rock thrower)
1975 Porsche 911 hot rod
1964 Porsche (Beck) 904
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
advice, wheel

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swivel Pin bearings and preload D90user Defender Technical Discussions 7 May 31st, 2015 04:18 PM
Wheel Bearings andy110 Defender Technical Discussions 3 November 10th, 2012 07:51 PM
Swivel pin bearings & races Viton Defender Technical Discussions 28 April 2nd, 2012 02:59 PM
94/95 - 97 Swivel pin Jase Defender Technical Discussions 1 March 29th, 2011 10:42 PM
Anyone do this? Bowtracer Defender Technical Discussions 13 March 18th, 2005 02:32 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 AM.


Copyright