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  #1  
Old September 9th, 2006, 11:40 PM
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Ken Loy
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What should I look for in speakers

I have some mediocre speakers and want to replace them with something a little better. I have a Sony radio/CD (I think it's 50 watts max), no amp.

What sort of things should I be looking for in speakers, besides not getting paper cones? Any specs I should be eyeing?

Only replacing the door speakers right now, and I don't play in the mud puddles so I don't think I need marine grade
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  #2  
Old September 10th, 2006, 10:39 AM
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Good question.

IMO, invest in an amp at the very least. Is this truck your daily driver? Do you ride with your top off? If you get an amp that is rated well, 45 watts RMS (true watts per channel) is decent enough power. Your Sony deck that boast 50watts isn't really 50 watts at all...not even close! Maybe half if your lucky and not very clean. In regards to your speakers, it wouldn't hurt to invest in component set, meaning seperate tweeter and midbass speaker. You can position the tweeter (not to far from the midbass speaker) angled towards your ears.

This maybe helpful...
http://www.roadgearmag.com/article.a...article_id=680
and
http://www.caraudiohelp.com/coaxial_...l_speakers.htm



I plan to replace my stock D-90 speakers as well, the issue I'm having is the plastic speaker housing in the rear of my truck as well as the door panels. It doesn't look like it has much of an enclosure. Other than the steal tuffy speaker box, I was hoping for a better solution. I might see if I can construct something out of fiberglass or maybe just dynamat everything, however, I was hoping for a easier/better solution? Any thoughts?

Ade
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  #3  
Old September 10th, 2006, 11:51 AM
artm
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Arthur Maravelis
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Some points:

1. The Sony is certainly 50W - as per their spec. Whatever that is: 50W per channel RMS, or peak (don't ever go by this). Of course it meets the 50W spec - how can they misadvertise?? Now, is 50W enough? See #3.

2. You said it yourself - no mud. That means you can use paper. Even paper cones are treated nowadays so even the cheapest ones are just paper. Any speaker from a quality company is fine because...

3. The D90 is not an environment to benefit from separate components. If you can cut down the ambient noise significantly then you can tinker with those. Otherwise, just put a good set of regular dual driver speakers in there and give them enough power. Get a set that can handle 100W and see how they sound with your Sony. If loud enough then you'r e done.

Honestly, you're not going to get hi fidelity in this environment so don't throw money away at it. Get a sound that's loud enough without distortion to cover the noise and that's it.
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Old September 10th, 2006, 12:25 PM
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Thanks guys. I'll check out those articles.
The spec sheet says: "23.2 watts per channel min continuous avg power into 4 ohms, 42w x 4 (at 4 ohms) max power output."

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaxx25
I plan to replace my stock D-90 speakers as well, the issue I'm having is the plastic speaker housing in the rear of my truck as well as the door panels. It doesn't look like it has much of an enclosure. Other than the steal tuffy speaker box, I was hoping for a better solution. I might see if I can construct something out of fiberglass or maybe just dynamat everything, however, I was hoping for a easier/better solution? Any thoughts?
Ade, Have you thought about getting some of Troy's storage boxes, maybe a little longer, and build the speaker enclosures into them?
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  #5  
Old September 10th, 2006, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loykd
Thanks guys. I'll check out those articles.
The spec sheet says: "23.2 watts per channel min continuous avg power into 4 ohms, 42w x 4 (at 4 ohms) max power output."
Continous power (RMS) is what you want to pay attention to. 23.2 watts RMS is definitely not enough power. You'll want to get an amp. Arthur is correct that you aren't going to get hi fidelity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loykd
Ade, Have you thought about getting some of Troy's storage boxes, maybe a little longer, and build the speaker enclosures into them?
I assume Troy's storage boxes are similiar to the Tuffy - Speaker & Storage lock box? http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/9705.cfm I'm still undecided about getting something like that, I was thinking of getting jump seats down the road.

I'm also thinking something like this might work, attaching to the cage itself. http://www.audio-n-more.com/Merchant...Code=wakeboard

Ade
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  #6  
Old September 10th, 2006, 01:20 PM
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ABSOLUTELY FORGET non-RMS RATINGS.
Except when talking dynamic headroom in amps.

Also, match the ohms in your speakers to the rating - it's typically 4ohms nowadays but some manufacturers play tricks to get higher power ratings.

Even though 23W sounds small you'd be surprised at the volume. I'd try it out first.
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Old September 10th, 2006, 04:13 PM
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okay all this mumbo jumbo. I have some sony explods not sure which all the rest is stock. They sound like shit and distort and cut out when you turn them up, horrible lows okay highs. What is a good all around speaker highs,and lows? I like the stock setup with the weatherband radio and the cd changer. infiniti kenwood alpine or what? so many to choose from
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  #8  
Old September 10th, 2006, 04:43 PM
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i'd go with a JL audio compenent set or POLK-MOMO set, they include tweeters, and mid's plus an amp. Bit it's only for one door and i think 200.00
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Old September 10th, 2006, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4
okay all this mumbo jumbo. I have some sony explods not sure which all the rest is stock. They sound like shit and distort and cut out when you turn them up, horrible lows okay highs. What is a good all around speaker highs,and lows? I like the stock setup with the weatherband radio and the cd changer. infiniti kenwood alpine or what? so many to choose from
Sony Explodes are garbage as you found out. Sad...Sony use to make some really good car audio equipment way back when. Now Walmart/Meijer carries them.

What is your price range, this is a major factor in what can be recommended.

Personally, forget about the CD Changer, that's old school. Alpine head units are great! If you get an Alpine deck that is 'Ipod Ready' along with the ICEE-422i cable you can then have over 1000+ songs (Depending on which IPOD you go with) in your arsenal. My buddy has an Ipod with a 60GB harddrive in his Beamer, that's over 15,000 songs! Can you say road trip? http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...od&mco=ACFD398. The cheapest Alpine deck, that isn't an open box at Best Buy is about $180. Kenwood makes good head units as well, I just prefer Alpine. (Note: I wouldn't recommend taking your trucks or any car for that matter for them to do the install.)

Speakers and amps...skys the limit...correction, your budget is the limit!

IMO, JL Audio anything...speakers, amps...QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY!!! They are the Badger of Car Audio. FYI, JL Audio has a marine series. http://marine.jlaudio.com/

Ade
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  #10  
Old September 10th, 2006, 05:59 PM
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i agree 100% JL AUDIO IS THE SHIT, it's so clean sounding and the subs don't have that ghetto bang that you can't hear shit but bass. My buddy has two 10' JL's in a box in the back of his 95' D-90, I plan on going with either JL or POLK-MOMO anything for audio when i get my 97' . Head units are a diff. story but IPOD compatible ones are worth the money.
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  #11  
Old September 10th, 2006, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themaxx25
I assume Troy's storage boxes are similiar to the Tuffy - Speaker & Storage lock box?
http://www.defendersource.com/mod/toolbox/index.htm
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ead.php?t=7496

Much better than Tuffy's. I'm sure you could figure out a way to put your speakers in there. As they are, they're short enough that they don't block the rear speakers, but I bet you could slide them all the way back and put your speakers in the front of the boxes, right behind ya.
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Old September 10th, 2006, 08:20 PM
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Some more thoughts:

1. Go to a few car audio stores and sample combinations of amp/speakers, or head units/speakers if you can't afford a separate amp. Pick the one that sounds good to you. The good stores will have A/B switching so you can instantly hear the difference in SETUPS. This is the only way to truly compare systems. Forget about listening to one and then one way later. Your ear is more sensitive to A/B differences unless you're an "audiophile" with a golden ear.

2. I have MB Quarts all around. At the risk of offending JL Audio fanatics, each of the familiar manufacturers surely makes a great speaker in this size. We're talking car audio for God's sakes - not Stereophile level gear. It's a simple science to design speakers. The issues then for me are where they're made and what are the specs. I wouldn't buy anything from China.

3. I would put full range speakers in the front and then subwoofers in the rear. You can fill that space with fiberglass and stuff a really good quality sub in there; or even bump out a bit to fit a better sub with a custom box front. You can easily make the box front fromplywood and paint it or carpet it - real easy. You will need a separate amp and crossover for it but it's worth it. Puts less stress on your main speakers' amp and generally sounds louder and better. Don't worry about seats being in the way - it's a sub, doesn't matter. Even a real cheap sub can sound great.

4. As for Troy-type boxes, I prefer 18-inch wide plastic tool boxes. These fit just in the space between the front seat and rear seat belt bracket (in my SW). One on each side offers plenty of tool space and you still have two seats in the rear. I just strap mine in allowing easy removal. If someone want to rip one out they can do so to a Troy box as well. For me, the plastics are not prone to rust and they cost $10 a piece! I would like to fab a full size cover which hinges up just to hide them a bit. I would also want to attach a foam armrest on top of that so those sitting in the back have at least one side to rest their arm.
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Old September 11th, 2006, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Some more thoughts:

1. Go to a few car audio stores and sample combinations of amp/speakers, or head units/speakers if you can't afford a separate amp. Pick the one that sounds good to you. The good stores will have A/B switching so you can instantly hear the difference in SETUPS. This is the only way to truly compare systems. Forget about listening to one and then one way later. Your ear is more sensitive to A/B differences unless you're an "audiophile" with a golden ear.

2. I have MB Quarts all around. At the risk of offending JL Audio fanatics, each of the familiar manufacturers surely makes a great speaker in this size. We're talking car audio for God's sakes - not Stereophile level gear. It's a simple science to design speakers. The issues then for me are where they're made and what are the specs. I wouldn't buy anything from China.

3. I would put full range speakers in the front and then subwoofers in the rear. You can fill that space with fiberglass and stuff a really good quality sub in there; or even bump out a bit to fit a better sub with a custom box front. You can easily make the box front fromplywood and paint it or carpet it - real easy. You will need a separate amp and crossover for it but it's worth it. Puts less stress on your main speakers' amp and generally sounds louder and better. Don't worry about seats being in the way - it's a sub, doesn't matter. Even a real cheap sub can sound great.

4. As for Troy-type boxes, I prefer 18-inch wide plastic tool boxes. These fit just in the space between the front seat and rear seat belt bracket (in my SW). One on each side offers plenty of tool space and you still have two seats in the rear. I just strap mine in allowing easy removal. If someone want to rip one out they can do so to a Troy box as well. For me, the plastics are not prone to rust and they cost $10 a piece! I would like to fab a full size cover which hinges up just to hide them a bit. I would also want to attach a foam armrest on top of that so those sitting in the back have at least one side to rest their arm.
That's some great advice. Btw, MB Quarts are great speakers as well, I had a set in my BMW back in the day. Not sure how they are presently, but my only issue with them was the highs were too bright!

Only thing to add, bring a few CDs that you really like to listen too! Nothing like comparing speakers, when listen to music that you completely enjoy.

Ade
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  #14  
Old September 11th, 2006, 10:19 AM
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In a more "acceptable" car environment (BMW) you have a better chance of noticing more things. In all honesty, it is rather difficult to get "correct" sound out of any system without the help of equalization. All well-designed systems depend on it.

I recall way back when Bose was one of the first (if not he first) developing custom systems for GM. They used dummies with microphones to evaluate audio parameters reaching the listener and tweaking the system to provide "ideal" parameters. Of course, this is subjective and they relied on their "good ears" for these parameters. This is now the norm in all serious manufacturer systems.

So,an equalizer can make any speaker sound just right for your taste assuming it is close enough to begin with. Bose is a big believer in equalization from day one: the 901 and 802 (pro model) RELY on an equalizer. Listen to one without the box and it sounds crappy.

Many other manufacturers abhore it, calling it unpure and artificial. It is much easier to develop a good speaker with an equalizer than without one. Again, to each his own but if the sounds is right for you in the end who cares how it got there? Things like speaker placement, size and listener position are much more liberal in a home enviroment than a car. Certainly, in a car environment where these parameters are more limited an equalizer is pretty much required.
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Old September 11th, 2006, 10:47 AM
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what size are the speakers in the rover
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Old September 11th, 2006, 11:06 AM
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Hey Ken,

I'm not one for following all of the mumbo on specs. However I just did a big upgrade and am really happy with the sounds.

here's what I have:

Alpine CDA-9856 head unit
Alpine 6 disc CD/MP3 changer in stock location
Ipod integration
Door speakers: Infinity Reference 5010CS. I mounted the smaller tweeter in the door panel near the top (thanks to Sheki)
Overhead speakers: Infinity Kappa's
Amp: Bazooka Marine 65X4 in the passenger seat box
Sub: Kenwood Woox powered enclosed sub

I've not had any issues with the setup and have been through a number of water crossings, etc. The sound from the setup is terrific.
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Old September 11th, 2006, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4
what size are the speakers in the rover
According to Crutchfield. The speakers are 6 1/2". Keep in mind this is for a 94 Defender. I would assume they didn't change the speaker size for 95-97.

Take a look for yourself: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-IebSAfc...Easp%3Fg%3D400

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
Hey Ken,

I'm not one for following all of the mumbo on specs. However I just did a big upgrade and am really happy with the sounds.

here's what I have:

Alpine CDA-9856 head unit
Alpine 6 disc CD/MP3 changer in stock location
Ipod integration
Door speakers: Infinity Reference 5010CS. I mounted the smaller tweeter in the door panel near the top (thanks to Sheki)
Overhead speakers: Infinity Kappa's
Amp: Bazooka Marine 65X4 in the passenger seat box
Sub: Kenwood Woox powered enclosed sub

I've not had any issues with the setup and have been through a number of water crossings, etc. The sound from the setup is terrific.
Hey Dave,

Could you take pictures of your tweeter mounting? And maybe a picture of how you have your amp placed?

Thanks in advance.
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Old September 11th, 2006, 11:18 AM
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No sweat, will do it tonight. The Amp is up against my ARB compressor. Talk about a tight fit...
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Old September 11th, 2006, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarchand
No sweat, will do it tonight. The Amp is up against my ARB compressor. Talk about a tight fit...
Do you have any issues with the amp overheating? How did you run the wires to the battery?
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Old September 11th, 2006, 11:55 AM
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No issues with overheating. Wires are sleeved and run direct to the batteries through the existing grommet from one box to the next, atop the transfer case. The whoel box is lined with dynamat extreme.

I was thinking about venting the cover of the passenger box with louvers if any issues with heat arose. Since the compressor is off most of the time, and when it is on, I always have the stereo off so I can hear the CB, they don't conflict.
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