Very strange, any ideas? Electrical Defender 1996 - Defender Source
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Old September 1st, 2017, 06:58 AM
C. Bragdon
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Christopher Bragdon
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Question Very strange, any ideas? Electrical Defender 1996

My 1996 Defender has developed a host of weird electrical issues most probably all related:

1) most weird of all: when the motor is running and the hazard lights are on, when I turn the key off and even take the key out, the motor keeps running until I turn off the hazard lights. The instant I turn off the hazard lights, the motor stops. When the hazard lights are off, the ignition and motor work normally starting and turning off the motor as desired. Hopefully, this is as informative to someone with experience as it is mysterious to me.

2) when I turn the switch that usually activates the headlights, the related exterior lights and the dashboard lights... nothing happens. No lights. However, if I pull the high beam switch, the high beams on the headlights work. There was a time when everything would work normally almost all the time, the switch only sometimes not activating the headlights, etc. But now the switch does not activate anything. The only way I can drive at night is to hold the lights in high beam.

3) sometimes, when I turn on the windshield wipers, they will not turn off. They keep working even though I have moved the switch to the off position. This does not always happen. Right now, they are working normally.

My goal is to create a checklist for the mechanic before I take it to a garage. I am in Bosnia and the mechanics tend to not have much if any experience with Land Rovers.

All ideas and suggestions are welcome.

Thank you.
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  #2  
Old September 1st, 2017, 07:20 AM
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Chris Davis
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The hazard lights sound like they are wired improperly and are back feeding the ignition circuit. I just rewired my hazard switch lights but I am not sure what your wiring diagram looks like--there are 8 wires on the switch and my guess is that it is back feeding your lighting circuit to the ignition switch. Not sure where this mis-feed would be located.

The high beam switch bypasses your headlight switch--they are a different circuit. If your head lights used to work, it is your headlight switch. It is a common failure particularly with upgraded higher wattage headlamps, but also with just regular ones too. The switch starts to arc and the plastic becomes soft (actually melts) which recesses the brass contacts tabs to the point it doesn't work. So it sounds like a new switch is in order. Just replace the switch.
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Old September 1st, 2017, 07:28 AM
C. Bragdon
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Christopher Bragdon
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There was a leak for some time allowing water behind the dashboard. Could there be a corrosion issue that is related to the hazard light switch? I have owned the Defender for about 10 years and no one has touched the hazard light wiring so my guess is the wiring is in the right order. Thank you for the help.

------ Follow up post added September 1st, 2017 05:30 AM ------

The headlight switch is only about a year old, replaced rather recently. But I suppose if it is the switch the mechanic can test that rather easily. How hard would it be for me to check to see if the switch is working? Does it take special tools to access the wiring behind the switch?
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  #4  
Old September 1st, 2017, 08:57 AM
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John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
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300TDI? Left hand drive? The hazard switch comes off with a couple of bolts. You can take off the whole lower dash piece on that side with 4 screws. 4 more screws to pull the instrument panel and you can access all of the wiring.

You need to grab a meter and the wiring schematic and start fault tracing.

It could be possible for a faulty hazard switch to back feed the switched power circuit. But there seems to be more issues.
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Old September 1st, 2017, 08:58 AM
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John B.
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Here is a link to the 1996 300TDI wiring schematic: http://www.legionlandrover.com/manua...0300%20tdi.pdf
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  #6  
Old September 1st, 2017, 09:58 AM
C. Bragdon
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Christopher Bragdon
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This will take some time since I am starting from scratch, no prior knowledge. Gotta buy tools and see how fault tracing works. Will update. Might be a few hours or a few days. Thanks, again.
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  #7  
Old September 1st, 2017, 10:20 AM
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Christopher Bragdon
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Yes, left handed 1996 Defender.
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  #8  
Old September 1st, 2017, 10:45 AM
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Hmm, like our friend on Tortola who found his Defender had started itself and drove across the parking lot of his office and through a fence. It turned out that ants had been eating the covers off the wiring.
.
.
.
Def check for ants.
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  #9  
Old September 1st, 2017, 10:57 AM
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Chris Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Hmm, like our friend on Tortola who found his Defender had started itself and drove across the parking lot of his office and through a fence. It turned out that ants had been eating the covers off the wiring.
.Def check for ants.
OMG! True story? That is awful! I don't want to see ants like that. I heard that there are areas of floating fire ants right now in Houston and that too sounds awful...
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  #10  
Old September 1st, 2017, 11:12 AM
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I'll give you a place to start. A diesel will continue to run until you stop either fuel or air. The key shuts off 12v to the fuel solenoid in the injection pump. If your truck doesn't stop when you turn off the key and the flashers are on, then is stands to reason that the flasher switch is sending 12v to the solenoid. It will take you 5 seconds to verify this by connecting your voltmeter between the solenoid and ground.

I'm kind of afraid to think about what you are going to find when you open up the dash, but good luck and please report back.
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  #11  
Old September 1st, 2017, 12:53 PM
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Dont just replace the headlight switch...wire in a relay and enjoy it never happening again
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  #12  
Old September 1st, 2017, 02:17 PM
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Christopher Bragdon
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Thanks everyone,

I checked inside the steering column and indeed the switch is brand new. Hard to believe the switch is not working.

I disconnected the hazard light and I see that some former "electrician" bridged two of the sockets in the "female" side of the plastic multi-pronged plug. I have not tried disconnecting the bridge (pulling the bridging bare wires out) but will when I get my jeep to a place where it does not matter if it stops running. Maybe the previous "electrician" had a reason for it.

I also discovered that for the two fuses for the headlights low beam, one fuse had been over ridden with a wire, meaning no fuse really, and the other had been changed from a 7.5 to a 20 amp fuse. So, now I am actually less worried. It appears there is a limited problem within the headlight circuit that has been the case for some time. (Ass opposed to rot and rust everywhere) I do not see corrosion or frayed wires. I do not see any at all. Regarding the headlight circuit, I now am assuming that the former "electrician" probably replaced something and then put in stronger fuses to avoid fixing whatever the underlying problem is. He probably just wanted to buy time so he could get paid. One thing that confuses me is why doesn't the control panel come on when the steering column light switch is turned on? Would a problem in the headlight circuit knock out the display lights (speed, time, etc.)?

I am totally new to this. Today, I was looking at the fuse box for the first time. Dismantling things for the first time. Taking it slow.

Next, I'll "unbridge" the sockets in the female plastic thing behind the hazard lights and see what happens.

Sooner or later, I'll need to find an actual real trustworthy electrician.

------ Follow up post added September 1st, 2017 12:18 PM ------

By the way, this is where I would prefer to be... up in the mountains of Bosnia.
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Old September 4th, 2017, 03:14 PM
C. Bragdon
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Christopher Bragdon
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Reaching out to the mechanic, if fail, then do myself

Here is an email I sent to our service. See picture. If they do not fix it, I believe I will try to fix this myself. Feeling a bit intimidated by the maze of wires but if I take it slowly...

Hi Alen,



Greetings from Tuzla. I am writing regarding electrical issues with the jeep.



I will call you tomorrow. I wanted to send this to you so you understand the electrical problem that seems to have never been actually fixed.


Two times now after being repaired, the headlights have stopped working. They stopped working again in July but I was in the United States and just got back.


I decided to look for myself and what I found is that a previous electrician, either at Miladin's or before, instead of truly repairing the headlight circuit, put a wire in the fuse socket for the headlights.


Please see attached.



Even if the electrician at Miladin's did not put this wire in himself, I would think he would be responsible enough to check the fuses on a circuit that had malfunctioned.



I am afraid this means that anything that we already spent time and money on could be burnt out again.


The question is what to do now.



I would prefer to continue working with BBS. I would prefer to bring the jeep back to Sarajevo again and for Miladin to personally oversee actually fixing the headlight circuit, meaning that the entire circuit is truly functioning properly, a proper fuse is in place. it does not short out.


Please discuss this with BBS management and advise as to next steps.


Thank you.


All the best,


Chris

See image of wired fuse here: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
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  #14  
Old September 4th, 2017, 04:08 PM
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Chris Davis
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Those are just turn signal/indicator fuses and should be 7.5A. the bridge in the hazards is typical and how mine is wired too-- I'd have to look, but I believe that is either a power or ground to the illuminated switch. Don't remove/cut/change anything until you know exactly what you are doing and what the plan is. Pita as it is, trace and check everything first with an ohm meter and volt meter.
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  #15  
Old September 4th, 2017, 04:11 PM
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Chris Davis
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Nevermind on the high low beam comment I made-- you are right about it being headlight
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  #16  
Old September 5th, 2017, 12:30 PM
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Tyler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Bragdon View Post
Thanks everyone, I checked inside the steering column and indeed the switch is brand new. Hard to believe the switch is not working. I disconnected the hazard light and I see that some former "electrician" bridged two of the sockets in the "female" side of the plastic multi-pronged plug. I have not tried disconnecting the bridge (pulling the bridging bare wires out) but will when I get my jeep to a place where it does not matter if it stops running. Maybe the previous "electrician" had a reason for it. I also discovered that for the two fuses for the headlights low beam, one fuse had been over ridden with a wire, meaning no fuse really, and the other had been changed from a 7.5 to a 20 amp fuse. So, now I am actually less worried. It appears there is a limited problem within the headlight circuit that has been the case for some time. (Ass opposed to rot and rust everywhere) I do not see corrosion or frayed wires. I do not see any at all. Regarding the headlight circuit, I now am assuming that the former "electrician" probably replaced something and then put in stronger fuses to avoid fixing whatever the underlying problem is. He probably just wanted to buy time so he could get paid. One thing that confuses me is why doesn't the control panel come on when the steering column light switch is turned on? Would a problem in the headlight circuit knock out the display lights (speed, time, etc.)? I am totally new to this. Today, I was looking at the fuse box for the first time. Dismantling things for the first time. Taking it slow. Next, I'll "unbridge" the sockets in the female plastic thing behind the hazard lights and see what happens. Sooner or later, I'll need to find an actual real trustworthy electrician. ------ Follow up post added September 1st, 2017 12:18 PM ------ By the way, this is where I would prefer to be... up in the mountains of Bosnia.
I had a brand new switch not fix my headlights not turning on or staying on. Put the old one back and tightened down the wheel and it worked again. Only have to occasionally smack the wheel get the lights to turn on. So it's possible it's not the new switch being bad.
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