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  #1  
Old June 7th, 2011, 06:04 PM
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Jason Zolezzi
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V8 vs tdi, Enthusiasts help me decide

I have my choices narrowed down to a local 110 with a fuel injected 3.9 V8 that has some rust and body issues for a fair price and a rebuild from the UK for the same price but I have to pay for and deal with importing. So is having a motor that I can easily swap for a more powerful 4.2 worth dealing with door sill rail rust and having to immediately replace the suspension, interior trim, both front wings and do a major clean up, or should I go with the import and the hassle of waiting and customs. The main complaint I have heard about the diesels is they are noisy slow and stink like diesel. How true is that? What diesel vs gas arguments should i consider. How much horsepower can you eek out of a 200 or 300 tdi with a bigger inner cooler and tweaking fuel and air intake? Anny help will be much appreciated. This is a big step and I want to do it right the first time.
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  #2  
Old June 7th, 2011, 06:46 PM
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Tony Sims
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People who complain about diesels should not buy diesels. They are noisy, slow and smell like diesel. They are also simple, reliable, durable and more fuel efficient. Tweak as you might, a 200TDi or 300TDi is never going to be a hugely powerful engine. They are quite adequate for pushing a Land Rover around at a speed that makes sense for a Land Rover, with good torque and tractability.

If you have not before owned a simple (crude, agricultural) vehicle like an early 110, you might be happier with the V8. It will be more civilized for driving on the pavement. The tradeoff will be fuel consumption and the potential for LR V8 personality flaws.

Are you sure the import truck has a TDi? The original diesel in an '85 would be a non-turbo 2.25 diesel. That would introduce you to some seriously leisurely motoring, because it will be good for about 65 mph tops, and will accelerate like a park bench. With a TDi you can sneak up on 80 (assuming you have the cojones to drive a 110 that fast), and accelerate like a retiree pushing a shopping trolley.
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  #3  
Old June 7th, 2011, 06:56 PM
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Jason Zolezzi
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I have a choice of a 200 or 300 tdi. What kind of personality flaws are we talking about? And I used to have a restored 1971 FJ 40 as my daily driver when I wasnt riding my GSXR and I could cope with that but it was a 6 cylinder. Anyone know how they compare
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  #4  
Old June 7th, 2011, 07:26 PM
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Greg Chin Sr
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Jason
There are issues bringing TDi into CA. You might want to talk to Doug on this board. Petrol motors are easier, and still have to hope you can avoid CARB regs. I have brought my petrol 110 here myself, which is easy enough tot do yourself, just depends on your priorities. Email if you want to discuss this. Good luck.
Greg
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  #5  
Old June 7th, 2011, 07:26 PM
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Interesting to see how this thread develops; might need to pull out a bag of popcorn! (Nice post TS).

I'm looking at buying my first diesel from the UK, and hadn't considered noise, odor, or acceleration as 'issues'. I'm buying it for the diesel MPG. I've got a 10MPG Tahoe when I want acceleration and no odor.

And other than some extra leg work for parts, I really don't know of a comparative product 4x4 in the US for an inexpensive diesel and get mid to high 20's MPG. Of course I'm Rover biased; and I'm selling a 2003 RR to fund the move to a diesel 110!

Hopefully no one bursts my bubble on this thread....
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  #6  
Old June 7th, 2011, 07:51 PM
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Jason Zolezzi
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I thought I was openig a can of worms with this one. The smog regs are not a huge issue for me since I have a "residence" in Oregon and can register it there. The noise can be dealt with, I'm just not sure how bad the smell is. Does it permeate the whole cab constantly? It can't be that bad if so many people drive them. The kicker is the acceleration, or lack there of. This truck will spend a great deal of time off road camping, diving and hunting but will spend an equal amount of time on road as well reaching these destinations or getting me to Tahoe in the snow for those powder days. I hope to get a lot of opinions on this
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  #7  
Old June 7th, 2011, 08:53 PM
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I have a 200tdi ( my second ) and a V8 D90 ( my second as well ), I can assure you either my smoking habits have killed my nose or people who said they smell are full of bologna ( unless of course they are driving a POS )

Fast you say? it is no Ferrari getting up there, but certainly holds its own once up there. I cruise with mine at 75+ most of the time

Noise? no more noisier than a ST D90

Fuel consumption, I get 25.5 on the HWY ( tested last trip to Rausch Creek ) and average of 18-20 for all around driving
( mind you I have a full cage like a NAS 110 ); my D90 on a good day does 15, mostly 13.
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  #8  
Old June 7th, 2011, 09:03 PM
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Julien Dalbin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
They are noisy, slow and smell like diesel. They are also simple, reliable, durable and more fuel efficient. Tweak as you might, a 200TDi or 300TDi is never going to be a hugely powerful engine. They are quite adequate for pushing a Land Rover around at a speed that makes sense for a Land Rover, with good torque and tractability.
nuff said
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  #9  
Old June 7th, 2011, 09:08 PM
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Thats a pretty fair roll up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
People who complain about diesels should not buy diesels. They are noisy, slow and smell like diesel. They are also simple, reliable, durable and more fuel efficient. Tweak as you might, a 200TDi or 300TDi is never going to be a hugely powerful engine. They are quite adequate for pushing a Land Rover around at a speed that makes sense for a Land Rover, with good torque and tractability.

If you have not before owned a simple (crude, agricultural) vehicle like an early 110, you might be happier with the V8. It will be more civilized for driving on the pavement. The tradeoff will be fuel consumption and the potential for LR V8 personality flaws.

Are you sure the import truck has a TDi? The original diesel in an '85 would be a non-turbo 2.25 diesel. That would introduce you to some seriously leisurely motoring, because it will be good for about 65 mph tops, and will accelerate like a park bench. With a TDi you can sneak up on 80 (assuming you have the cojones to drive a 110 that fast), and accelerate like a retiree pushing a shopping trolley.
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  #10  
Old June 7th, 2011, 09:08 PM
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the v8 would be tough/to impossible to register in CA, and initial entry of a diesel into cali is tougher than a transfer from another state. If you are looking at two old defenders and similar in price the diesel is the way to go. Rovers all have their own smell, more like gear oil than diesel, the gas trucks have the same odor. Sure getting fuel is a little more messy at the diesel pumps due to the users, but I would think in CA you guys would have some fancy stations Double fuel mileage, simple to work on, less moving parts on the motor. Go diesel and never look back, the toyota guys want diesel, the jeep guys, the rover guys, we can't all be wrong.
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  #11  
Old June 7th, 2011, 10:12 PM
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Greg Chin Sr
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CA is easy to bring a petrol,or NA diesel in, but pertols, you still must comply with CARB regs, which is an expensive procedure. I opted to register out of state, and be done with the red tape. There is a chance in NOR CA as seen from others, to register a NA Diesel with out much. If you can show both the brake box, and frame VIN's , you might avoid the CHP inspection, that will send you straight to a CARB station. Try to do a TDi, is another set of issues though. Nothing is easy here in CA, but northern CA seems to have less problems. As for petrol diesel choice, I am installing an ACR 2.8 petrol for my ambulance now.
Greg
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  #12  
Old June 7th, 2011, 10:51 PM
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thomas
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I don't smell fuel when I drive. It is a little noisy, I call it my shift indicator noise. In Jersey we don't have to pump so my hands dont smell like fuel.

I can also run down to North Carolina on 1 tank. You can keep up on highways if you are geared right. I wish you luck in your choices but I will say that most Gas Rover owners want a diesel at some point. You might as well go straight to diesel....
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  #13  
Old June 8th, 2011, 12:02 AM
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Don Lang
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the only time u will smell diesel or diesel exhaust is if you spill or have a leak in the fuel or exhaust system.
on occasion with top off you might get the exhaust smell from the way the wind is blowing, but you can get exhaust smell from a gas also. Keep ur pump tuning realistic with little smoke and u should be good with a diesel...
Plus the resale $$$ on the diesel rover is better!!!
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  #14  
Old June 8th, 2011, 02:32 AM
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V8 parts used are cheap to free and widely available. Tdi, not so much. Also, tdis are SLOW[er] in stock form.
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  #15  
Old June 8th, 2011, 06:18 AM
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Give me a V8 or a Td5
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  #16  
Old June 8th, 2011, 08:42 AM
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Tony Sims
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I didn't intend to suggest that diesels smell all the time. But if the smell of diesel bothers you, it's difficult to avoid smelling it when fueling or if you're wandering around the truck when it's running. I never smell it while driving. I like diesel, it smells like freedom...

V8 personality flaws include head gasket failure, slipped liners, doing the CEL dance with 14CUX, chasing the 3 amigos with GEMS, cooked oil cooler lines, and a prodigious thirst for premium fuel. Other than the fuel thirst, none of these things are insurmountable. I had a RRC with a 3.9 that was running like at champ at over 150k miles, but I had to deal with a bunch of deferred maintenance in the first couple months. I'm a LR V8 fan, but now that I've tasted the diesel koolaid I can't go back.

If you owned an FJ40 you're ready for Defender din. I think my early 110 with a 300TDi drives better and is generally more civilized than a CJ or FJ.

On a day to day basis there's little difference between a 200TDi and a 300TDi. Both have timing belts that need to be replaced once in a while. The 300 has a reputation for timing belt failure, but that was an early production issue and it would be rare to find an engine that has not had the pulley fix that eliminates the problem. The engines have similar needs for regular maintenance like valve adjustments, filters, etc. 200 uses V belts for accessory drive, 300 uses a serpentine which I find more convenient. Everyone has their preference, my advice would be to get the 300TDi because it's newer and parts availability will be better.

While it's true a TD5 can be tweaked to put out a lot more power than a TDi, it also has an ECU, and the tweaking increases fuel consumption (and can shorten engine life). Going back to my "simple, reliable, durable" mantra, the 300TDi with mechanical injection is my preference. It's all in what you want.
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
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  #17  
Old June 8th, 2011, 08:51 AM
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I have a ROW 300TDI which I love to bits, and I plan to keep it forever. But if I started all over, I would get a V8 without blinking- and I've driven almost exclusively 3.5 and 3.9 petrols for the last 25 years or so, so I know about their "character".

For me, stop and go traffic in steep inclines is a deal breaker, and I have to do it every day. Yeah, the 300 TDI can move the 110 well enough, but only in flat land, or once it is rolling. If you live up in the mountains like myself, you'll love to hate it.
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  #18  
Old June 8th, 2011, 09:13 AM
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Jason Zolezzi
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I am going with the Tdi. Thank you for all the input
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  #19  
Old June 8th, 2011, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
I have a 200tdi ( my second ) and a V8 D90 ( my second as well ), I can assure you either my smoking habits have killed my nose or people who said they smell are full of bologna ( unless of course they are driving a POS )

Fast you say? it is no Ferrari getting up there, but certainly holds its own once up there. I cruise with mine at 75+ most of the time

Noise? no more noisier than a ST D90

Fuel consumption, I get 25.5 on the HWY ( tested last trip to Rausch Creek ) and average of 18-20 for all around driving
( mind you I have a full cage like a NAS 110 ); my D90 on a good day does 15, mostly 13.
Roger that.
I'm not even sure there should be a discussion regarding the diesel vs. petrol engines. They are two completely different animals. For a start, it's a 4cyl against a v8, so the displacement alone makes for a bad comparision. Then add a turbo vs a naturally aspirated motor, completely different performance curve.
As for speed, if top speed is important I'd question why pick a Land Rover in the first place.
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  #20  
Old June 8th, 2011, 09:27 AM
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Tony Sims
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the v8 would be tough/to impossible to register in CA.

That surprises me given the NAS trucks are all EFI V8's, and the RRC and Disco use the same engine. Would the CARB balk because it's not the original engine/induction/emissions system for the specific truck? I'd think with an older vehicle it would be OK to install a newer engine as long as all the associated emissions gear was included. But then I know next to nothing about CARB rules, and have no real desire to learn...
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[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
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