Upgrading a 130 for heavy duty goose neck horse trailering? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 05:52 PM
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Upgrading a 130 for heavy duty goose neck horse trailering?

Trying to figure out if thereís a way to replace my gmc pick-up with a 130 double cab.

The challenge would be to increase the 130ís tow capacity. A minimum of 11,000 - 12,000 lbs. Goose neck horse trailer.

Perhaps I'm trying to cram a square peg into a round hole here.

The google machine provides limited wisdom. I did find this, offering a glimmer of hope:

http://www.fifthwheeleurope.eu/data/...030e8990da.JPG

Any experience anyone? Thoughts on what kind of mods/budget we would be talking about? Mission impossible?
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  #2  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 05:58 PM
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No direct experience, but if you don't have a rather serious engine under there you are going nowhere fast. I would look at Nick's LS engine conversion to start.

Brakes are the second problem.... once you have everything moving, you have to fight Sir Issac Newton to stop it.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 06:07 PM
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That is a lot of weight. 5th wheel territory. Check out this website: Fifth Wheel Europe - Landrover 130 crew cab (High Capacity Truck)


Edit - sorry, just now seeing you already located the website.


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  #4  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 06:13 PM
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Thanks guys. This would also be my daily driver so I would prefer not to have to mod it like the second image above. Thanks Russel: The third image was my inspiration/spark. Neill: what is Nick's LS engine conversion? Again, this might be a fool's errand, but If I call kill two birds with one stone (130 with HULK engine/brakes/etc AND my daily driver) I would be so happy.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 06:23 PM
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This thread will consume the rest of your night:
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...-ls-51290.html

Forum Member Nick Markiw (nmarkiw) developed an entire kit to place a GM LS truck motor into the Defender, keeping the original transfer case and its geometry. Major win, especially here in California as it's one of the only ways to have a legal imported Defender. If you get serious about it, PM him and he can give you advice.
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  #6  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 06:30 PM
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Already built 130 for pulling power on ebay now. Himalaya 130 Limited edition. Not meaning to pump a sale or jump on the thread, but its already to go for what you want. 5.0 V8 motor and 4 wheel disc brakes with automatic. Just an idea.
Of course it isnt eveyones cup of tea. But since you want custom I am putting out there. One does need to be prepared with a fat wallet.
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  #7  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 06:33 PM
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Whats the load a 5th wheel puts on to the tow vehicle? Guessing that mounting it well in front of the rear axle will be important for balance and control.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 07:59 PM
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The 127" wheelbase is going to be a major limiting factor. For reference, that is about the same wheelbase as a Ford F150 Regular Cab pickup. The highest rated tow specification for that F150 is around 9500 with 380/380 plus HP/TQ. Weight of the Defender is less as well; I just don't see a 4300 pound 127 being able to safely manage a 11-12k GN, especially on hills, emergency maneuvering, and corners. Id assume tongue weight would be an issue as well.

Mechanically, Id imagine, even if you stuffed a GM smallblock, uprated all driveline components, and fit larger brakes and wheels, you'd still have breakage with the Rover design when laden at the front axle.

The Euro trailers, size wise, are laughable. I looked into trailer capacity for a 127 a while ago myself and realized it was not meant for a serious trailer, especially out west.

Ya might come close if you put a GM SB and trans, Dana 44/60 front, airbags in the rear, and 18" wheels with Alcon calipers. But then you. basically have a Defender shell over a GM pickup.

If you figure this out, I'd love to know!
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  #9  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 08:01 PM
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Uncle Douglas has both a D130 and an F250. He would be uniquely qualified to answer this question perhaps he will chime in.
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Old February 22nd, 2015, 09:11 PM
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I already did the first time he asked the question in Jon's for sale thread.

I have towed a lot with a 130. @ least 50k. This with a car trailer and loaded with a 110- ie around 1/2 what you are asking about in lbs. Sam pretty much nailed it. 6500 lbs would be what I consider a maximum for that platform. It ate front axle/wheel bearings and brakes, clutch's etc. Keep in mind also that the defender chassis when new was/is only 14 gauge steel.

To tow 12k + it would take significant modifications, ie entirely different drive train, much better brakes, as well as some frame work.

IMO to safely pull 12k in the US you need 300+ hp and hydro boost bakes and overall a much heavier duty platform. You would need to pull the 130 rear bed and weld in supports/reinforce the frame for the goose neck mount as the thin aluminum bed floor is certainly not up to the task.
Given how hot a Ford super duty automatic trans gets towing that amount of weight, its a certainty you would quickly destroy a 4hp22, which is designed for passenger car use. In my experience an r380 cant handle it either.I destroyed one towing a lot less weight.

You could buy a solid used powerstroke f250 or 3500 dodge or duramax for what you would invest modifying a 127/130 to safely handle pulling 12k and then you are still dealing with the physics of the fact that its wheelbase is too short to do it safely. Having been pushed sideways by a load on sharp off ramps a few times I have a great deal of respect for the physics involved.

Its just not what these are designed for.
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  #11  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 09:31 PM
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Well put.
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  #12  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 10:00 PM
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Yeah, Mission Impossible, kinda what thought. Thanks for the feedback everyone! Doug: I'll get back to you this week about our original plan. Mark: please don't tempt me.... Neill: thanks, and I'll still check out Nicks deal. There really should be a rover for all tasks!
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  #13  
Old February 22nd, 2015, 10:06 PM
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Sent you a pm. Just did Nicks conversion if you have any questions about it.
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  #14  
Old February 23rd, 2015, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Hell, anything is possible. -Jeff
Same vein...

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  #15  
Old April 29th, 2015, 05:29 PM
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Quick update and most likely the end of this thread. I might be able to get a stripped down lightweight 4horse trailer in around 4000 LBS. Each horse average 1000lbs. Water and food not really a weight issue. Let's call it 8500lbs. Still too much but a better number than previous estimate.

These guys are on to something with their 3 horse motor home (I like: "you can have your cake and eat it.") but they are of course in the UK:
Off Road Articulated Horsebox | Specialist Vehicle Creators

In the end though; the thought of a 25+ year old truck transporting horses...on freeways...in Florida heat…if something breaks down...not fun.

I think it's time to go domestic. RAM AEV perhaps? Tow and Fun combo.

I’ll have to find another reason to get a 130… Ultimate Overlander / Car Pool Bus?
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