UNDRIVEABLE DEFENDER 90 300Tdi - CO Fumes in cabin - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old June 11th, 2015, 06:55 PM
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We once hid 5 pounds of kippers in a sauna of a target (surface ship) that where tied along side, as we sailed the next day we do not know the out come of that.

Maybe you should check your heater box.

Submariners do it deeper.
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  #22  
Old June 11th, 2015, 07:33 PM
w507
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Will Goodlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
The intercooler could only be contaminated if the turbo was mixing exhaust into the combustion air. If that were the case you'd notice other issues and loss of power.

-Jeff
I dont agree, the breather feeds into the air inlet, through the turbo and intercooler and back into the inlet manifold. If the engine blows plenty will go through the intercooler. Any leak after the turbo will be under pressure when the boost is on and will spew gas into the engine bay.

I found leaks in two pipes and at the inlet manifold, but have fixed all these now. Just a slightly suspicious intercooler left.

------ Follow up post added June 12th, 2015 01:38 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverman2010 View Post
We once hid 5 pounds of kippers in a sauna of a target (surface ship) that where tied along side, as we sailed the next day we do not know the out come of that.

Maybe you should check your heater box.

Submariners do it deeper.
Nice story heater box and blower completely replaced on the weekend. Prior to that it was removed and the hole in the firewall blocked and taped to prevent any gas getting in.
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  #23  
Old June 11th, 2015, 07:44 PM
w507
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Will Goodlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
Diesel engines aren't known producers of Carbon Monoxide. It sounds like your engine has some bad blowby. How is the compression?
I havent been able to check compression yet. But it is a smooth engine, plenty of torque and sounds sweet on the highway. There is some oil in the combustion chambers (checked the injectors) its my first diesel, so i dont know if it's normal - my guess is it shouldnt be there.. There is a leak at the back of the sump whick suggest sump pressure. But they all have tnat apparently!

If it were petrol, i would definitely say the rings are worn.
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  #24  
Old June 11th, 2015, 07:45 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Ha. And there I was thinking it was because he referred to you as "Mrs"
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Sorry didn't see the bit about Afrikaans Rdavisinva, no I am a Rooinek from Hong Kong (can't speak Cantonese either beyond some swear words : ) )
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  #25  
Old June 11th, 2015, 07:48 PM
w507
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Will Goodlet
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Ha. And there I was thinking it was because he referred to you as "Mrs"
Yeah I did manage to translate that much, LoL
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  #26  
Old June 11th, 2015, 07:51 PM
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Ben
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
Diesel engines aren't known producers of Carbon Monoxide. It sounds like your engine has some bad blowby. How is the compression?
Good point... so.. if it had blow by that would change that?
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  #27  
Old June 12th, 2015, 04:00 AM
w507
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Will Goodlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Wondering if its something else, like a mold infestation in the seats or something that is giving you an allergic reaction not a CO reaction. 5 minutes is a really short period of time for CO to build up to dangerous levels but if its something in the environment that you are having a bad reaction to that could be a reasonable time frame.
Thanks for this input. The CO detector has just arrived. I am very interested to see if it changes colour!
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  #28  
Old June 12th, 2015, 05:54 AM
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Ben
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Point of fact.
IF you find CO. IT means your engine has a serious combustion problem.
CO content of diesel exhaust should be .01% (from the internets)
It is not, however, unheard of for the police to find a dead trucker in an idling semi.

Point being, if you have a good running vehicle, which should be fairly obvious, you don't have CO, you have vertigo, or something else.
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  #29  
Old June 12th, 2015, 06:30 AM
w507
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Will Goodlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenderMd View Post
Point of fact.
IF you find CO. IT means your engine has a serious combustion problem.
CO content of diesel exhaust should be .01% (from the internets)
It is not, however, unheard of for the police to find a dead trucker in an idling semi.

Point being, if you have a good running vehicle, which should be fairly obvious, you don't have CO, you have vertigo, or something else.
You are disregarding the effect of high altitude on the burn. CO is 2-4 times more on diesel engines at 6,000 ft - worse on poorly timed ones. Johannesburg is 5,700ft above sea level. Diesel also produces Nitrogen oxides which can also cause dizziness.

In any case I believe the issue is in not from exhaust gas, rather from the inlet and re-breathing system. A mix of high sulphur diesel blow-by, oil mist, hot vapourised oil (possibly some burned oil) all coming out of the breather, through the turbo and intercooler and back into the engine combustion chamber. A leak on that circuit, after the turbo could easily explain the symptoms.
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  #30  
Old June 12th, 2015, 06:42 AM
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The problem I see with all of this is how it is getting into the cabin? Even if the culprit, regardless of the cause, is in the engine compartment how is it so drastically getting into the cabin?. I have seen missing foam seals in the shifter housing, tunnel cover, cause massive amounts of heat to get into the cabin. Could this seal be missing? From my experience exhaust gas getting into the cabin is more associated with the exhaust system.
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  #31  
Old June 12th, 2015, 07:01 AM
w507
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Will Goodlet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Milks View Post
The problem I see with all of this is how it is getting into the cabin? Even if the culprit, regardless of the cause, is in the engine compartment how is it so drastically getting into the cabin?. I have seen missing foam seals in the shifter housing, tunnel cover, cause massive amounts of heat to get into the cabin. Could this seal be missing? From my experience exhaust gas getting into the cabin is more associated with the exhaust system.
No the seal is good on the transmission tunnel. Under the driver seat is just a metal plate over the diesel tank - I have re-sealed, but air can suck through there if a window is open (due to vacuum in the cabin).

Holes in the firewall? Poor connection/joint on heater ducting? Even through the gap behind the bonnet and in through the flaps?

The things I have done so far have made a huge difference - we are talking 60-70% reduction in the effect. But I need to nail down the root cause and fix it because I can't seal up any more than I have. There has to be a leak somewhere that is under pressure in the engine bay - and i believe this because I sealed up all the other leaks in exhaust and turbo breather system and it has made a difference.

I noticed today that the effect is worse if the engine is fully warmed up. In the cold morning I didn't get much problem - only 4km though. Hot oil in the sump, more vapour in the breather? Or maybe oil leaks on the exhaust or even out the banjo on the turbo oil resevoir? I'll get to the bottom of it! Especially with all the suggestions on where to look from the kind people on the forum!!
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  #32  
Old June 12th, 2015, 08:20 AM
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mark kellgren
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After this much work, I'd get or rent a smoke machine and hook it up to the tailpipe to visually see where the leaks are along your entire exhaust. Once that is sorted, I'd do the same for the intake system.
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  #33  
Old June 12th, 2015, 10:05 AM
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Stupid question but have you had a friend drive the vehicle to see if they notice it too?
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  #34  
Old June 12th, 2015, 11:00 AM
w507
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Will Goodlet
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Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Stupid question but have you had a friend drive the vehicle to see if they notice it too?
Not stupid at all! Not yet, but it's on my list of tests. Thanks
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  #35  
Old June 12th, 2015, 11:11 AM
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mark kellgren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w507 View Post
Not stupid at all! Not yet, but it's on my list of tests. Thanks
Make sure they don't drive a Toyota or the test won't be valid
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  #36  
Old June 12th, 2015, 11:14 AM
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Reading through this,might sound silly but could it be your Axle or gearbox breather tubes?
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  #37  
Old June 12th, 2015, 11:38 AM
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Skinny Pete
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Having stuck my nose in a diesel crankcase or two, they are full of some of the most noxious mixtures of combustion by products. If the blowby vapor was entering the cabin in any quantity it would be enough to make any normal person sick, CO or otherwise. We are talking about a defender here so there is really no way to seal one up. The problem isn't how to keep this stuff out in my opinion. The problem is to find out what is wrong with your engine that it is producing noxious gasses of any kind, particularly if it's CO.

Some people have a sensitivity to diesel fumes but it sounds like you are ok with them on other vehicles.
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  #38  
Old June 12th, 2015, 05:36 PM
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Ken Lawler
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I almost sold my Defender 110 exMod after experiencing something similar. Even with the top off, windows off...still smelled it and it made me feel terrible. There were tones of little holes under seats, everywhere. I taped them all up and it solved the problem completely. I don't think yours is the same situation but just letting you know someone else shares your pain. You'll figure it out. Good luck.
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  #39  
Old June 12th, 2015, 05:40 PM
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Ben
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
After this much work, I'd get or rent a smoke machine and hook it up to the tailpipe to visually see where the leaks are along your entire exhaust. Once that is sorted, I'd do the same for the intake system.
Yup. If stuff is getting in from in front or under you... exhaust is bad or engine is bad. Replace them both.
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