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  #1  
Old October 4th, 2004, 10:42 AM
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Tubed and Tubeless rims

A few months ago, I got a set of "Defender 110" rims, thinking that they are NAS110 rims. Well, now I'm aware that NAS 110 rims are officially known as D130 rims.

Anyway, since they are not NAS110/D130 rims, the question is are these rims for tubeless tires ONLY?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old October 6th, 2004, 12:36 PM
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Are we talking steel or alloy rims?
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  #3  
Old October 6th, 2004, 01:22 PM
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I would think he is taliking about steel wheels as the 110 only came with steel wheels when it was imported. To answer the question I think you can go tube or tubeless with those rims.
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  #4  
Old October 6th, 2004, 01:41 PM
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The steel rim to be used with tubes will be stamped "for tubes only" or something like that I think.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 01:53 PM
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I am running NATO wheels on my truck and they are stamped tube only. I am running them tubeless and have had no problems in the year I have been driving on them. I talked with people at several tire shops and they all said it was no problem to run tubeless.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 01:58 PM
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Thanks for all the replies guys!

Yes, they are steel.

I brought the rims over to my mechanic and had him put some tires on them. First, we realized the valve stem was different, and when he put the tire on, (it held air BTW), he said he's a bit suspicious about the rim and he thinks it's for tubed tires only. Although there are no stamps anywhere on the rims that says so.

So before I put the rest of them on, I was want to make sure that I can put some tubeless tires on them. Please someone confirm... Kevin's post is somewhat good but the "I think" part doesn't get my worries away.

I don't want to be driving down the road at 70mph and the tire separating from my rim.

Follow-up Post:

opps, Kevin snuck in there... that confirms it then.... thanks Kevin :D
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  #7  
Old October 6th, 2004, 02:01 PM
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I'm running Euro-spec 110 steelies with tubeless tires.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 02:34 PM
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Glenn,
I was talking with one of the guys at British Pacific about this subjuct last year. Some steel are two piece, inner and outer piece, maybe they all are? Anyway these two pieces are either riveted together or welded. I had some Series wheels that were riveted and some that were spot welded. I used tubeless tires on all of them and never had a problem. The BP guy told me with the riveted wheels you run the risk of a leak through the rivet. My NATO wheels are welded and there is no risk of leak yet it still says "tubed tires only" ? Go figure. Any way I think you would be fine running tubless on them.
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Old October 6th, 2004, 02:50 PM
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I was just going to mention the welded or riveted thing myself and the fact that air might leak out through the rivets. I think the main issue is that tubeless rims have a lip running round the inside of the rim that the tyre has to pop over when the tyre is being mounted on the rim and tubed type rims are smooth. this may mean that the tubeless tyre might come off the seat more easily when cornering with low tyre pressures. I've seen a few tubeless tyres do this at low spead whilst off roading.
Just my 2p worth, I'm not a trained tyre fitter
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Old October 6th, 2004, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeslandrover
....tubeless rims have a lip running round the inside of the rim that the tyre has to pop over when the tyre is being mounted on the rim and tubed type rims are smooth...
That is exactly the reasoning that my mechanic gave me Mike! Logically, it makes sense. My mechanic is not specifically a tire (tyre) specialty guy neither, just a plain jane (or joe in his case) mechanic with a shop that has the proper tools for mounting tires. He did however told me to consult with a tire shop and I took it upon myself to post up here.

But seeing that at least Kevin and Art are running tubeless tires on these same rims without any issue, I think I'll give them a shot.

Thanks all!
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  #11  
Old October 6th, 2004, 04:45 PM
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This happened to me awhile back. I was running about 15-20 lbs winching in soft dirt with the wheels turned and peeled the tire off the rim. May or may not be because of the rim. I choose to think it would have happend regardless of the setup I have.
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  #12  
Old October 6th, 2004, 05:05 PM
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Have a look at the rim and post the part number. Should be stamped on the rim. "Normal" 110 rims are tubeless.

As an aside, "Wolf" rims come in tubeless and tubed styles. There are different part numbers for each.
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  #13  
Old October 7th, 2004, 02:34 PM
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Wolf rims also say tubed or tubeless on the rim!
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  #14  
Old October 7th, 2004, 04:07 PM
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Okay folks... finally got the part #. It's ANR4636 (or is it 3646?). They are made by Dunlop and they don't have a stamp anywhere that says "tubeless only". Thanks for all the replies!
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  #15  
Old October 7th, 2004, 04:13 PM
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The EPC says "welded-primed-tubed". And I agree, if they don't have the safety lip, they are meant to have tubes.
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  #16  
Old January 13th, 2008, 12:41 PM
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I have ANR4636 rims, and the stems look like they might have tubes (but I am not sure).

Anyone specifically running these without tubes, or can anyone show me a picture of this safety lip so I have a better understanding of this?

thanks
charles
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  #17  
Old January 13th, 2008, 04:18 PM
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I've had tubless 235/85R15 tires on my [original equipment] steel "130" rims on the 110 for about 18k miles without trouble. (10k of those miles were put on by me.) I've had the tires aired down on moderate trails to 18 psi in the front and 22 psi in the rear many times without problems. On two occasions, I've aired down to around 14psi for special situations that advance scouting suggested would not demand significant side loads - no trouble. I also air the tires down to around 5 psi to get the truck in/out of the garage with the roof tent on the rack and have never had an issue (short distance, straight line, for short period of time). My rims do not have the safety bead found on tubeless rims. Incidentally, the tire bead is seated by pressure against the outer flange of the rim so under proper conditions and with proper tire pressures, the safety bead isn't needed. However, under emergency conditions, the safety bead helps [but does not completely] prevent the tire from losing the bead and collapsing into the inner well of the wheel under rapid deflation (e.g. blowout), heavy side load (e.g. fast corners with too little air), etc. Without the safety bead, as in my case, a rapidly deflating tubeless tire could easly roll off the seat and into the well - this is my primary concern. To help avoid this, I check pressures frequently, inspect the tires often, and don't push things too much when aired down. I have not noticed this set-up to loose air any faster than any other car I've owned so perhaps there is a seal in addition to the rivits holding the halves together. Some folks use tubes with their tubeless tires on these rims to add a margin of safety; I do not, however, as I prefer the simplicity of puncture repairs on tubless which I feel is a much more likely event. FWIW.
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  #18  
Old January 13th, 2008, 06:29 PM
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Would you mind checking the stamp on your rims and let me know if it's ANR4636? You are running the same size tires as I am, and I like them. I just don't want to run into any surprises when replacing them. Mine are welded not riveted.

thanks,
charles
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  #19  
Old January 13th, 2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymoe
This happened to me awhile back. I was running about 15-20 lbs winching in soft dirt with the wheels turned and peeled the tire off the rim. May or may not be because of the rim. I choose to think it would have happend regardless of the setup I have.
Something has to be wrong with your setup for you to lose a bead with a small tire at 20 PSI! Seriously.
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  #20  
Old January 16th, 2008, 05:54 PM
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Sorry, should have included a full description. My wheels have the following markings on them "ANR 1534" and "6 1/2 x 16 x 20,6". Again, I believe they are "intended" for tubes. I'm pretty sure all of the 1993 NAS 110s came into the US with these rims and tubed tires. Hope that helps.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymoe
This happened to me awhile back. I was running about 15-20 lbs winching in soft dirt with the wheels turned and peeled the tire off the rim. May or may not be because of the rim. I choose to think it would have happend regardless of the setup I have.

I'd bet your bead loss was caused by the turned wheel, lower pressure, soft trail conditions, and recovery mode – not, using tubeless tires on tube rims. Just a turned wheel under these conditions can put a great deal of load on the sidewalls and thus a bead loss is much more likely - particularly if aired down. I’m not suggesting you had a choice on your recovery location or technique, mind, but I seriously doubt the safety lip found on a tubeless rim would have been able to prevent the bead loss you experienced. The safety lips found on tubeless rims have limitations and, at any rate, are really designed to increase safety on the street not prevent bead loss on the trail.

Since bead locks are out of the question for me, your experience has me rethinking my own trail habits. Going forward, I think I’ll consider airing up a bit before attempting any recovery efforts under difficult conditions; I’ll definitely try to remember to keep my wheels straight.

Anyway, here is a comment from a SA wheel/tire accessory maker that might be of interest to some on the subject – sorry in advance for the loooong post:

“Normally, the wheel rim of a motor car, minibus-taxi, commercial vehicle, caravan, truck or bus is designed to have a shaped recess ('well') inside, for its full circumference. It is an integral and necessary design feature with the simple purpose of enabling the fitting or removal of the tyre onto or from the rim. Without this 'well' it is impossible to fit or remove a tyre because the circumference of the tyre bead is smaller than that of the rim. To fit a tyre an operator has to manoeuvre one part of the bead into the well to allow the opposite part to slip over the flange. Then, the rest of the bead can be forced gradually over the flange until the whole bead is secured on the inside of both flanges.

When inflated, internal air pressure pushes the tyre side walls (and bead) outwards against the flanges, thereby keeping the tyre bead in place in the seats of the wheel rim. If the tyre deflates, as it would during a severe tyre burst or slow puncture, insufficient pressure to maintain the bead against the seats of the rims will result, causing them to become free to move on the rim and back into the well. Once this occurs the tyre becomes dislodged, leaves the rim, and may cause loss of control. The rim also comes into contact with the road surface, making it impossible to control the vehicle because it then acts as a plough shear, mostly causing the vehicle to overturn or swerve uncontrollably.

Rim and tyre manufacturers have made many attempts to prevent this problem. Modern tubeless wheel rims for passenger cars, minibus-taxis and light delivery vehicles normally include some form of bead retention hump ('safety hump') in their design. These 'humps' only partially assist in preventing bead movement at sub-normally low tyre pressure. No form of bead retention hump is manufactured into commercial truck or bus wheel rims. These 'humps' are of necessity quite shallow (small), otherwise they would prevent tyre fitting, but for the same reason do very little to nothing towards preventing the tyre bead from moving over the humps and into the well following deflation to less than 50% of the recommended air pressure.”
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