Tub Refurb - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old May 25th, 2015, 10:03 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Tub Refurb

Need to do a bunch of repairs on the 110 rear tub.

Looking to patch some areas. Main question - should I use an adhesive or sealant between the original tub aluminum and the patch piece? I will
be using rivets to attach.

Pic of one of the sides that needs some help.

Click image for larger version

Name:	image-116671769.jpg
Views:	166
Size:	582.0 KB
ID:	121593
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old May 25th, 2015, 10:04 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Same side - lower corroded area.

Click image for larger version

Name:	image-2023508595.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	497.1 KB
ID:	121594
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 25th, 2015, 10:15 PM
airbornrover's Avatar
airbornrover
Status: Offline
William Skidmore
SIII 109 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Land by parkway and 33
Posts: 1,882
Why not just cut out the bad sections and weld in good metal?
__________________
Quote:
Just to be clear, i was not bragging. i was calling you a pussy. Ren Ching
There is nothing as permanent as a temporary fix. JSBriggs
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old May 25th, 2015, 10:23 PM
Roverdoc's Avatar
Roverdoc
Status: Offline
Dan Kemper
1997 D90 SW #278
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lafayette, CA
Posts: 309
I would cut out the aluminum corrosion rot and patch with similar thickness aluminum sheet panels. Seam sealer and rivets should do the trick and be a strong repair. Paint and voila you are good to go. Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 25th, 2015, 10:46 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornrover View Post
Why not just cut out the bad sections and weld in good metal?
Haven't weld Aluminum yet. I might just do that to other pieces that I can put on my welding table.

------ Follow up post added May 25th, 2015 10:47 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverdoc View Post
I would cut out the aluminum corrosion rot and patch with similar thickness aluminum sheet panels. Seam sealer and rivets should do the trick and be a strong repair. Paint and voila you are good to go. Good luck.
Thanks RoverDoc - I was certainly going to cut back to decent material. Any seam sealer should work?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 25th, 2015, 10:51 PM
roverman2010's Avatar
roverman2010
Status: Offline
John
1985 LR 90 200Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Galveston Island, NearTexas
Posts: 2,335
Registry
Don, check out my build tread (b777onr) same issues I made plates, glued 3M and rivets
__________________
Edward Teach is the Blackbeard, and is a member of the Birmabright Brotherhood.

Still looking for that place where I can carry a paddle and get asked what's that.

JnK Services
FC101 GS FFR
57 LR 88" SXF 858
85 LR90
95 D1 Tdi
05 D3 HSE
97 XK8 BRG FHC For Sale
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 26th, 2015, 07:13 AM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by roverman2010 View Post
Don, check out my build tread (b777onr) same issues I made plates, glued 3M and rivets
Ah - great! Looks just like my issue. Very nice work!! Will use your pics as a guide. Any idea what 3M glue you used?

------ Follow up post added May 26th, 2015 07:13 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Thanks for the link Jeff!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 26th, 2015, 02:11 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Online
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,553
Registry
if you have a mig or tig, i would vote to weld a clean repair.

you don't need a spoolgun, just straight argon.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 26th, 2015, 02:34 PM
roverman2010's Avatar
roverman2010
Status: Offline
John
1985 LR 90 200Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Galveston Island, NearTexas
Posts: 2,335
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
Ah - great! Looks just like my issue. Very nice work!! Will use your pics as a guide. Any idea what 3M glue you used?

------ Follow up post added May 26th, 2015 07:13 AM ------



Thanks for the link Jeff!
Sorly it wasn't 3m but Eastwood structural panel adhesive, I used just less than one tube.

I would have tig ed the panels in, but I still can only do bench work nicely..
__________________
Edward Teach is the Blackbeard, and is a member of the Birmabright Brotherhood.

Still looking for that place where I can carry a paddle and get asked what's that.

JnK Services
FC101 GS FFR
57 LR 88" SXF 858
85 LR90
95 D1 Tdi
05 D3 HSE
97 XK8 BRG FHC For Sale
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 26th, 2015, 04:22 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
if you have a mig or tig, i would vote to weld a clean repair. you don't need a spoolgun, just straight argon.
I have a TIG machine - I might just give it a try
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old May 26th, 2015, 04:45 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
these might come in handy. 8 Piece Butt Welding Clamps -Jeff
Yup - actually looked at them last time I was in Harbor Freight. Will swing by and grab a set next time I am in that area.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old May 26th, 2015, 05:05 PM
DefenderMd's Avatar
DefenderMd
Status: Offline
Ben
87 defender 110 3 door
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Annapolis md
Posts: 336
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
I have a TIG machine - I might just give it a try
Can your tig machine do AC?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old May 26th, 2015, 07:16 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenderMd View Post
Can your tig machine do AC?
It can
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old May 26th, 2015, 07:37 PM
DefenderMd's Avatar
DefenderMd
Status: Offline
Ben
87 defender 110 3 door
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Annapolis md
Posts: 336
Registry
Well wTf.. you're a professional.. weld it!
My welding shop guy doesn't even have AC tig. "no market". I mean even at a hobby duty cycle that's better than a $1000 machine. I'd be using that thing for everything.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old May 26th, 2015, 08:47 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Online
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,553
Registry
AC is good. However, you don't need AC to TIG aluminum. The phrase "You must have AC to weld aluminum" is all over the internet, but it's a straight up lie. For example, virtually the entire APS at Argonne National Labs has its entire aluminum beamline welded with DC TIG. And that isn't off-road equipment welding - it's hard vacuum, high-radiation welding for a coherent X-ray source.

Just use DCEP, a big fat tungsten to sink the heat, and use a higher than normal gas flow (or 100% helium shielding gas.)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old May 26th, 2015, 08:56 PM
DefenderMd's Avatar
DefenderMd
Status: Offline
Ben
87 defender 110 3 door
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Annapolis md
Posts: 336
Registry
I'm no expert at welding by any stretch. I don't even own a tig welder. I wire feed and stick, un shielded, outdoors. "farm style".

But its all over miller's website too. You may be right.. but it isn't what seems to be taught. I didn't get my info from the internet. I got it from welding class. Now... among specialist groups, it is common to continue spreading false information based on ... where is the new info coming from? Once they're in the field and do it the way that works for them, they can be very skeptical of new information.

I don't understand completely what AC does for the weld. When I read about welding aluminum, its all about the oxidation. Sounds like from your description AC somehow lowers the temp (ergo big fat tungsten to spread the load?)
I've got an appointment with my welder guy to get the front crossmember and surrounding area, removed/replaced/beefed up for winching and maybe plowing. I'll see if he can put a fine point on this. He's fairly young, but has had experience in a broad range of welding careers.

and unfortunately helium is probably a resource we won't have in a few years.

At any rate. OP can weld his bed and it will be stronger and probably prettier than rivets.
also... how does a bed get THAT corroded that quickly? I would think the frame would be gone by the time the electrolysis got to it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old May 26th, 2015, 09:54 PM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
AC is good. However, you don't need AC to TIG aluminum. The phrase "You must have AC to weld aluminum" is all over the internet, but it's a straight up lie. For example, virtually the entire APS at Argonne National Labs has its entire aluminum beamline welded with DC TIG. And that isn't off-road equipment welding - it's hard vacuum, high-radiation welding for a coherent X-ray source. Just use DCEP, a big fat tungsten to sink the heat, and use a higher than normal gas flow (or 100% helium shielding gas.)
Interesting - never knew that about Aluminum welding in DC but my knowledge and skill are still pretty remedial. Will have to talk to my welding buddy and see what he has heard about that method. He welds with some pretty cool metals at work - inconel and titanium. I don't have any fat tungsten so will do my AL learning in AC but neat to hear that process.

------ Follow up post added May 26th, 2015 10:03 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenderMd View Post
At any rate. OP can weld his bed and it will be stronger and probably prettier than rivets. also... how does a bed get THAT corroded that quickly? I would think the frame would be gone by the time the electrolysis got to it.
My welding buddy said rivets are actually pretty good way to join things. I am going to try and fix my fender first and if that goes ok I will try some welding on the tub.

Don't even ask about the corrosion. This is just the first part of the tub questions I have. Frame was crispy as hell hence I went with a new galvy deal. My guess is the aluminum corrodes a lot quicker once the steel gets rusty. It seems where the steel was in good shape the aluminum was decent. I have a solid pile of stuff to go to galvy and I am going to paint the aluminum as best I can (POR-15 I am thinking of right now).
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old May 26th, 2015, 10:08 PM
DefenderMd's Avatar
DefenderMd
Status: Offline
Ben
87 defender 110 3 door
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Annapolis md
Posts: 336
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post

My welding buddy said rivets are actually pretty good way to join things. I am going to try and fix my fender first and if that goes ok I will try some welding on the tub.

Don't even ask about the corrosion. This is just the first part of the tub questions I have. Frame was crispy as hell hence I went with a new galvy deal. My guess is the aluminum corrodes a lot quicker once the steel gets rusty. It seems where the steel was in good shape the aluminum was decent. I have a solid pile of stuff to go to galvy and I am going to paint the aluminum as best I can (POR-15 I am thinking of right now).

sounds like you got it for a song. i hope...

i doubt your theory on rust causing other corrosion. I imagine both are corroded by the same process .

Galvanized frames are neato.. but man.. thats a pain! Thought there's a good retirement job. Swapping all those frames for people with attachments to their rovers.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old May 29th, 2015, 11:42 AM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
Did some "test" work on my left front fender. That had corroded aluminum too - go figure :

Not perfect but should do - I am going to scuff up and paint before installing to help protect the aluminum.

Before:

Click image for larger version

Name:	image-287408785.jpg
Views:	76
Size:	540.5 KB
ID:	121794
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old May 29th, 2015, 11:42 AM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,272
Registry
After:

Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3933775899.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	522.0 KB
ID:	121795
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1987 LHD Defender 90, refurb. $ 22500 rivermike For Sale - Vehicles 6 September 3rd, 2012 07:06 AM
300tdi - Refurb v. Rebuilt v. Remanuf v. Overhaul??? bjlover Defender Technical Discussions 4 October 9th, 2011 10:36 AM
Picking up a 4.6...refurb notions? o2batsea Defender Technical Discussions 6 August 18th, 2011 10:30 PM
1984 D90 or D110 refurb to 2006 spec DefenderDan Defender Technical Discussions 5 June 23rd, 2009 10:19 AM
Time To Think About Refurb The Wizard Defender Technical Discussions 14 January 4th, 2006 12:59 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:52 PM.


Copyright