Truetrac setup in my 110 front axle - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 2nd, 2012, 01:46 PM
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Andrew Clarke
1986 110 CSW 200tdi
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Truetrac setup in my 110 front axle

Hi. I have almost 90 degrees of play in my front prop shaft when I rotate it. I figured I should do something about that. I have a Detroit locker in the back, and figured a Truetrac in the front would complement it nicely.

I'm not a mechanic, so I'm not sure how much of this I should attempt to do myself, and how much I should be getting someone else to do. There's a guy near here who has set up a lot of Jaguar diffs, and open Land Rover diffs, but on the other hand he didn't even know what a Truetrac was so I'm not sure whether I should be trusting him with this job.

If I have this much play in my front diff, can someone help me know what I should definitely be ordering and replacing, and what else I should check while I'm at it?

Also, I'm in southwestern Ontario, Canada. I know Great Basin Rovers in the US does this sort of stuff, but I'd prefer not to ship my third member to the US or buy parts from the US if I can find someone reasonably local that can do the work just as well. I have nothing against Americans, but cross-border shipping and shopping is an expense and pain I'd like to avoid if possible.

I'm just confused by what needs to be set up by someone who knows what they're doing, what can be set up remotely and installed locally, etc. etc.

Thanks a lot,
- Andrew.
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  #2  
Old May 2nd, 2012, 02:00 PM
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Maybe its just me but I doubt you have 90 degrees all @ the diff. How are the front drive flanges and cv's ? Might want to look @ those before throwing money just @ the diff.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 08:30 PM
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Andrew Clarke
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I don't know how they are. The mechanic thought they'd need to be replaced too, but nobody's taken anything apart yet. I just put everything into neutral and climbed under the truck, and it's probably more like 50 degrees than 90. The thing is, the rear prop shaft has just as much play.

When I rotated the front prop shaft, I could clearly hear a clunk at the wheel ends of the axles at the end of both rotations. In the rear end, it wasn't as pronounced, but then I wasn't in as good a position to really hear the rear as much.

There's a LOT of slop in the drivetrain though. I have to let out the clutch very carefully to avoid a significant bang every time I start off or change gears. It's always been there, but it seems like it's getting worse. The only part I've replaced in the driveline recently is the rear u-joint. Well, about 10k miles ago I had the transmission overhauled so I'm pretty sure it's nothing in there.

I'm just not sure where I should start. I don't know if I should trust this mechanic, or if I shoud just start pulling the wheels and/or diff covers off and see what I see. I'm not really sure if I'd even be able to identify a problem if it was staring me in the face.

I also plan on redoing all the bushings on the vehicle this spring/summer, and replacing the bulkhead (and rear crossmember) also. The mechanic thought I should just drop the whole front axle, but I'm not really sure that's worth the effort. Then I have to mess with springs, brake lines, etc. OTOH I was considering putting a spacer in the suspension to level it up, but you've got to stop somewhere.

Thanks,
- Andrew.
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  #4  
Old May 2nd, 2012, 11:52 PM
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you will have some slop on the drive train, it is nature of the beast.. when setting gear lash there is a very fine line between just right of a complete disaster, I try to set my gears in the tight end, 5 to 7 thousands while other set it 7 to 10... any looser than that and it clunks any tighter than 5 and it will not lubricate thus grind the gears.
more than likely your differentials may need attention. yes a differental such as a tru track is a great improvement but only if set right... furthermore I would sugest using them only if you have 24 spline axles, or if you plan to upgradre to them otherwise you will break axles.
it is up to your mechanic to decide if trans and t case are in need of an overhaul or if the play shown warrants such service...
personally I would start with the easiest and more economical... the diffs either way you go you will fall into the thousands of dollars.. as a former land rover tech I can tell you, you may end up somewhere in the 5 to 6 thousand dollar neighborhood.. due to the nature of the beast.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 12:24 AM
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Sounds like you have a combination of several items adding up to alot of play in the driveshaft. As far as the truetrac goes it doesn't matter if your mechanic has seen or heard of it, it sets up the same way as any other rover banjo style diff. and if your spiders and side gears are worn then the truetrac will help eliminate some of the slop.

And as for the backlash of your ring and pinion you set them up with in spec taking into account the best contact pattern you can get within the specs of the gear set you are using. no two will be exact but they will be close. Run out plays apart in this as well so you can not really pick a good or bad number when setting up a diff.

If you are resetting up old gears its a good idea to check backlash and pattern before you remove them , and set them up as close to where they were as possible so you don't change the pattern they where broke in to.

Im doing the same thing on my 110 and have found most of the slop to be the drive flanges, I just converted it to 24 spline front for under 600.00 bucks. used low miles diff. for 75.00 and GBR 24 spline axles. I have drive flanges on the way to tighten things up a bit more.

sounds like your on the right track to getting back in shape!!

Cheers Ed
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 10:19 AM
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jack up any corner and remove the rubber grease cap. turn the tire side to side and watch the axle and the drive flange it fits through. Confident yours are shot. There should be no movement. This is the primary wear spot and if the splines on the axles are still decent new drive flanges should fix you up. If you keep driving it one of the drive flanges will strip out and you will loose drive in that axle and have to use difflock to get home.
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  #7  
Old May 3rd, 2012, 11:08 AM
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Andrew, fwiw, I went with GBR because the prce differential was not very big, even with shipping, back when I was comparing total costs and weighting shop experience and knowledge of Rovers. It is well documented Bill/GBR stand behind their work and products, BTW. I have over 70k miles on a trutrac/detroit set up that they did for me 7 years ago. I drive my truck everyday and never hesitate to use my truck in the city, at highway speeds (80 mph) and offroad whenever I get a chance. Everything Bill counseled pre-purchase 7 years ago has been true to fact.

Clay
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  #8  
Old May 4th, 2012, 09:36 AM
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Andrew Clarke
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Thanks to all of you. I just re-checked the thread and noticed that I must have missed an auto-notification of new postings.

Maybe I'll give GBR (or whatever they're called now) a call. This particular mechanic would rather I order all the parts myself, so I have the small trick of trying to order stuff before I really know what the problem is. Or, of course, leaving it apart while I wait for the parts to arrive which seems like the better course of action.

I'll try to do as you suggested as well, Doug, and check for play at the front wheels. I think I have some play there from when I did something similar a couple months ago, although I think I just chalked it up to bearings at the time. I didn't rotate the wheel to listen for crunchy sounds, which I should probably do too.

I'm a willing amateur mechanic, but I'm very much an amateur!

- Andrew.
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Old May 4th, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Assuming a 4.11 diff ratio:

4.11 driveshaft revs / tire rev
1 driveshaft rev to 87.6 degrees tire rev
90 degrees on the driveshaft = 21.9 degrees at the axle flange - not likely even on a 10 spline.
50 degrees on the driveshaft = 12.2 degrees at the axle flange - possible on a 10 spline axle.

From what little I know of differentials, there's only so much play that's possible in the diff itself before the gears melt into a ball or teeth start breaking. By definition, if the diff is still operating, then the diff is not to blame. So I would assume that it's somewhere in either where the axles meet the diff or the axles meet the drive flanges.

I have the same sort of play issue, btw. I haven't cracked open my drive flanges, but I'm expecting that there is going to be significant wear in some interface between the axles and drive flanges causing the play.

Regardless of what you plan to do, I would still remove the drive flanges and take a look.
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  #10  
Old May 4th, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Grease your zerk fittings. My drivetrain clunked like crazy, changed the tranny, diff's, TC fluids, AND greased all the zerk fittings (grease Nipples) of which I think there are 4 or 5 of them.

Clunking went away!
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