Tranny, T-Box Locked Rear Wheels Ahhh! - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old July 4th, 2007, 09:29 PM
Shake
Status: Offline
Bob Hanson AKA Two-Socks
Red 94 D-90 #428
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 182
Tranny, T-Box Locked Rear Wheels Ahhh!

Am confused, and frustrated. Need to get an idea of this problem so I can estimate costs before I have my 94D towed over to a tech. Appreciate your thoughts if you have time. Searched for symptoms on D-90 board but found nothing.

Heard two unusual "Clanks" from Transmission area. D still moving at ~40 MPH.

Stopped at a light. Let out clutch in 1st... D just sat there.

Played with T-Box shift and put it in low range...heard/felt it engage and D moved about 30 feet under power then coasted.

Moved T-box shift to H-4 locked and drove D about 2 miles. Rear wheels locked 200 feet after R hand corner and Bob and D did a 360 on the street.

D would not move. Played with T-box shifter again and trans went into 3rd low (Gear shift shifts normally). Drove D-home and parked it. Occasional clanking sound from Transmission area.

Never any drips or leaks from anywhere under the truck. NOW have big spots under front and rear differential housings.

D will still move in 1-3 low. Very rough, jerky, start in 1-2 gear high. Can move T-box shifter and gear shift normally. T-box replaced 600 miles ago. All new clutch hydraulics ~100 miles ago. 135K miles on truck. Original Lt77 transmission.
__________________
"I ain't lost!!, ain't NEVER been lost...<Scratching head>Been a might confused fur a few hours...but I ain't never been lost."
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old July 5th, 2007, 09:31 AM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
Obviously, the brand new T-Case seems like the perfect culpirit.
Now, I am a little bit puzzled with the rear wheel locking up..... If that was a T-Case problem, then I would have expected major noise inside the T-Case or the entire drivetrain locking up (i.e. front as well).

So.... Here what I could do:
- jack up the rear axle
- "block" the rear driveshaft (someone holding it should do)
- turn one rear wheel, verify that the other is turning the other way around
- remove the rear driveshaft
- manually turn the rear differential input
- verify that rear wheels are turning as expected
- repeat on front axle

If everything looks great:
- put both axles on jack stand (and remove wheels if jacks are not high enough)
- leave driveshaft out
- put in low range
- unlock (or make sure it is unlocked) T-Case differential
- with a gear engaged (like 1st gear) and engine NOT running
- turn one of the T-Case outputs
- verify that the other output is turning the other way around
- lock the central differential
- turn one of the T-Case outputs
- verify that the other output is turning in the same way
- try this again in High range

Again, I am a little bit confused by the behavior/noise you described, but I'd bet that you lost a half-shaft.

You don't have any lockers in the front or rear axle, right?
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 5th, 2007, 10:59 AM
Shake
Status: Offline
Bob Hanson AKA Two-Socks
Red 94 D-90 #428
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 182
Hi Monland,

Thanks for taking a crack at it. I'm confused too. Very little audible warning before the lock up, two clanks and a little occasional, muted, rattling from the T-Box/Tranny area....and I came within a hair of taking my kids to the mountains in this thing. I don't know a half shaft from a half mast

No lockers front or rear. Just played with it again. T-Box will not lock to lock the differentials. I thought all four wheels locked up but went back and looked at the tire tracks on the road. Only one set of tire skid marks (30 feet) at first...then front wheel rubber where I was in the middle of the 360. However, there are serious puddles under both differentials...Nothing under T-Box and Tranny.

I fix most stuff as it occurs and had my eye on fluids. Only fluid dripping a little was the power steering fluid.
If it's the T-Box, why the fluid under the differentials? Blown seals or something? I don't have the resources to perform the procedure you described. Am grateful for thoughts though.

I don't get it. Keep it in low range and you wouldn't know there was a problem.
__________________
"I ain't lost!!, ain't NEVER been lost...<Scratching head>Been a might confused fur a few hours...but I ain't never been lost."
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old July 5th, 2007, 11:07 AM
MonLand
Status: Offline
Loic Fabro
95 D90 - 96 Disco -06 LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Herndon, VA - USA
Posts: 1,642
Registry
So, you're saying that all is well in low range? If that's the case, then the only thing that is different is the T-Case. I am not familiar enough with the internals, but I'd think something is broken is there (but would have expected a bigger continuous noise when running/driving).

Not sure about the puddles under the diffs. Does not make much sense unless the wheel lock up put a lot of stress on the axles and broke the seal between the diff and the diff housing (like what some people have reported with some diff guards). Not sure if that's possible. But that leads to the question: where is the oil leaking from exactly?

Anyway, if you don't have much tools, then take it to a repair place or ask local friends to help you. There is probably nothing you can do to repair that thing yourself.
__________________
Quote:
I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
---
MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 5th, 2007, 11:44 AM
Shake
Status: Offline
Bob Hanson AKA Two-Socks
Red 94 D-90 #428
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 182
I think it's fine in low range...and cannot lock differentials. So I guess what I get so far is the T-box....With added stress during the 360 that blew the seals. (I got under the truck when it first wouldn't go into gear...No fluids, nothing hanging down...So the diffs. may be after the fact of theT-Box blowing up)

There was a trail of fluid under the front diff. while driving...to the point where I parked it. The biggest puddle is under the front. Not sure exactly where it leaked from. Had to park it and jump in another car to go to work. Puddles are centered under the diffs. No fluid along axle and dripping at the ends...just straight down.

Seems fine in low range (incl. reverse) but am hesitant to drive it far and end up stranded. Truck does the herky-jerky when trying to move off in high range.

Crap...Not another T-box. Now I'm wondering if I should hire a flat bed or try and drive it to the shop in low. Repair shop isn't close. Geeze...was saving money for a winch and sliders...

Thanks Monland...Maybe we've done all we can here. Better than sending it to repair with a question mark and a blank check...sure as hell can't do that.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 5th, 2007, 11:54 AM
Andrew Vick
Status: Offline
Andrew Vick
95 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Basalt, USA
Posts: 437
Take it to Jeff at JC's 4x4. At least then you'll know what you're dealing with.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 5th, 2007, 12:49 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
If it's just locking the rear wheels, I'm also suspecting the parking drum right off the bat.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 5th, 2007, 12:58 PM
Shake
Status: Offline
Bob Hanson AKA Two-Socks
Red 94 D-90 #428
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 182
Yup. Jeff's the man. But he's about 14 miles away. So I needed an idea of cost before I have it towed to him. Will email him next. Anybody know a good towing company in Aurora/Denver?

FWIW I just got under the truck to check the diff fluid levels. Rear is okay and the fluid is clear. The front...well there are two 4 inch tears in the housing... It was the rear wheels that locked though. You can see the stretches in the siping on the tires.

Anybody know how much one of Keith (Rover Tracks) Toyota kits costs? Can you only replace one with a Toyota diff.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 5th, 2007, 01:13 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
Uh oh, that is not good at all. Sounds like the whole thing had locked up on you, and the rear diff held, while the front one didn't.

Another option would be some of the other differentials that GBR carries.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 5th, 2007, 01:31 PM
Shake
Status: Offline
Bob Hanson AKA Two-Socks
Red 94 D-90 #428
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 182
Yeah....Cost wise I think I'm screwed. But if that front wouldn't have let go...I bet I would have rolled. Is there a loan officer available?

GBR=Great Basin Rovers, right?

Thanks to everyone...and still open to thoughts/ideas. Don't EVER want that to happen again. That had to be divine intervention. Too much to be coincidence.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 5th, 2007, 01:50 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Bob,

I and a bunch of others here have a bunch of used diffs and stuff when you figure it out.

Try draining the oil in the T-case, diffs, and transmission and see which ones chunks come out of.

Ron
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 5th, 2007, 01:52 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
Yeah, I've seen the divine hand at times as well. Watched some guy, had just put some 35's on his new Dodge pickup..... improperly. I was driving behind him as the back-left came off the truck almost. The only thing that kept it on at all was a bent wheel stud. I helped him straighten it out, get it all back together, and drive home. Then explained to him how to properly put on lugnuts.

This happened at 20mph or so. Had it lasted another, oh, 45 seconds..... he would have been going 65-70mph on the highway, it fell off about 500ft prior to the entrance ramp.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 6th, 2007, 11:19 AM
Shake
Status: Offline
Bob Hanson AKA Two-Socks
Red 94 D-90 #428
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 182
Ron: That's a good idea. It's pretty well disabled until I have it towed anyway. Also found out that my daughter took the initiative to clean the house and threw out the old dirty 3-ring binder that was on the kitchen counter...Errr, that would be my owner's manual. <shaking head>

Hans: Made a last minute decison to not take the D up in the mountains w/my sons on Hwy 285 because it doesn't have a stereo. The morning it happened was the first in months where I had a ton of sleep the night before, and headed into work way early when the roads were still cool and there was no traffic. Otherwise, my siped 285X75s would have stuck to the road and not slid...I would have rolled...I could have rolled on 285. Anybody familiar w/285 knows what that means. (And now add in the fact that I know the front dif. locked and released) Now, if I could just figure out what I'm here for...Lottery? Nah, I think I know... My kids.
__________________
"I ain't lost!!, ain't NEVER been lost...<Scratching head>Been a might confused fur a few hours...but I ain't never been lost."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 6th, 2007, 11:39 AM
Gore Ranger's Avatar
Gore Ranger
Status: Offline
Jeff
1989 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 536
From the Solihull Society boards, it looks like JC Rover is having a U-Pull it Stripping party of 3 trucks this Saturday. If you bring some beer, I am sure someone would pull you at least the diff off of one of the trucks, maybe there is some other stuff on there you could use too. The Disco diffs I think would work with the d90, although the '94 RRC might too. Better yet, you get your truck over there by then so he can see what you need.

He has a Disco I, 94 RRC LWB, and a p38 I think all getting parted out cheap

PS If you dont have AAA, get it now, it will more than pay for itself with the first use. Also, my Amex card has free towing or something (never used) so if you have an amex, look into that too.

hope this helps...

PPS Do you still need the oil cooler line kit? If so, check your other post over on the solihull board.

Jeff S.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 6th, 2007, 12:03 PM
Shake
Status: Offline
Bob Hanson AKA Two-Socks
Red 94 D-90 #428
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gore Ranger
PPS Do you still need the oil cooler line kit? If so, check your other post over on the solihull board.

Jeff S.
Heya Jeff!

That might work. Go ahead an send me some PICs. Stainless braided? I actually think I can do the oil cooler lines. Just need to make sure it has the right size fittings.

What gets me is some of the heavy stuff and the reverse logic on the Diagnostics. Kinda like having a brain tumor but the symptom is that your toe hurts. WTF? Actually, that's the way Army doctors were. I wonder if they can work on Defenders?

Also want to sell my alloy wheels, an older stock soft top, and I have a passenger side (Old/Unistalled - from LRNA -Aries Blue) front fender from an old 94D. Have to raise some cash for the repairs.

Can't go Saturday. Promised my daughter that I'd take her to the mountains...Only weekend she doesn't have soccer.
__________________
"I ain't lost!!, ain't NEVER been lost...<Scratching head>Been a might confused fur a few hours...but I ain't never been lost."
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 6th, 2007, 04:39 PM
revorder
Status: Offline
JP McInerny
97
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vail Colorado
Posts: 22
Hi Bob, I Have two very clean diffs with stock gears up in vail. If you find that is your problem you can have them. They came out of a D1 with 40,000 miles. You would have to pick up. JP


cell 970-390-9086
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 6th, 2007, 10:11 PM
Shake
Status: Offline
Bob Hanson AKA Two-Socks
Red 94 D-90 #428
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Aurora, CO
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by revorder
Hi Bob, I Have two very clean diffs with stock gears up in vail. If you find that is your problem you can have them. They came out of a D1 with 40,000 miles. You would have to pick up. JP


cell 970-390-9086
Thanks, JP!! I'll keep that in mind. Just thinking about an upgrade to one of Rover Tracks Toyota kits...But have many questions on that subject. May be cost prohibitive. Common sense tells me to fly with the budget plan right now. Just don't ever want a repeat of that 360 scenario. Your offer is timely and much appreciated.

Sincerely,
Bob
__________________
"I ain't lost!!, ain't NEVER been lost...<Scratching head>Been a might confused fur a few hours...but I ain't never been lost."
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 7th, 2007, 12:23 AM
owen's Avatar
owen
Status: Offline
Owen Jones
Yellow`95 D90 ST #2188
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Superior, Colorado
Posts: 140
Registry
Shake

"Also want to sell my alloy wheels, an older stock soft top, and I have a passenger side (Old/Unistalled - from LRNA -Aries Blue) front fender from an old 94D. Have to raise some cash for the repairs."



Sent email on the wheels...

Owen
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 7th, 2007, 07:24 AM
junkyddog11's Avatar
junkyddog11
Status: Offline
oil soaked filter
95 RRC 300tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No. Berwick, Maine
Posts: 1,253
[QUOTE=Shake]. Moved T-box shift to H-4 locked and drove D about 2 miles. Rear wheels locked 200 feet after R hand corner and Bob and D did a 360 on the street. QUOTE]

I'm thinking that, although the upgrade to Toy diffs is a nice thing, you may be wanting to look at what caused this issue in the first place. Probably not the diffs. Try NOT "experimental driving" the truck after a catastrophic failure and you will be much less likely to potentially roll the truck endangering yourself and others, never mind doing what sounds like extensive (and expensive) further damage to the drivetrain.

sorry....lecture over.

Good luck with the fix (plenty of good help locally eh?) and keep us posted as to what the origin of the failure was.
__________________
Matt Browne


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old July 8th, 2007, 12:44 AM
revorder
Status: Offline
JP McInerny
97
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vail Colorado
Posts: 22
Hi Bob. Who replaced the TC ? Have you checked to see if there is fluid in it? I cant believe you got 135,000 on a lt77. Did you ever have that modified to lubricate the shaft? Do as Evil said and check those two fluids. Also it is very easy to pull the square inspection plate off the bottom of the TC. You can get a good view of internals(broken teeth, etc). I hope who ever did the TC swap put oil in it. I would love to see a pic of the casing holes up front. JP
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
wheel, wheels

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TOO MUCH STUFF, Disco/RRC/Series/Defender/P38 GARAGE SALE RedRhinoProducts For Sale - Parts 5 May 20th, 2006 09:19 PM
Rear Tuffy Box for a 110 pcarey Defender Technical Discussions 12 March 4th, 2006 11:27 PM
Tuffy Rear Box pcarey Defender Technical Discussions 9 February 21st, 2006 03:08 PM
1996 Disco 35s, locked, etc... WBDISCO For Sale - Vehicles 0 November 2nd, 2005 10:41 AM
ISO: Rear door subwoofer box NASD90 Wanted 2 August 23rd, 2004 08:59 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 AM.


Copyright