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  #21  
Old March 25th, 2014, 09:49 AM
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1995 D90 SW #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Sample an utility trailer from your local equipment rental place for ~$50. They should have one in the 4,500lb range to give you a first hand feel under normal and emergency conditions in a safe location. Is your D-90 already wired for e-brakes?
This - working on a plan for this weekend. My 90 isn't wired with a brake controller yet, so the plan is to rent a UHaul trailer with surge brakes. Its heavier than any trailer I would buy; the surge brakes aren't as "good" as electric brakes with a proper controller; and I'm going to load a heavier car. Obviously, I won't be heading straight for the highway at 80mph ...

If it can pass this test, I think I'll be ok.
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  #22  
Old March 25th, 2014, 10:48 AM
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I would volunteer that 7 inches of wheel base is a huge difference in the ability of the tow vehicle to withstand a straight line push in a turn. Having had a car trailer push me sideways @ speeds as low as 20mph on off ramps, country roads, etc to the point of breaking the rear end loose I'd say no matter how good a driver you are, long distance towing a 911 on a trailer with a 90 is folly. Sure electric brakes on both axles might stop you from jack knifing and killing your self ( in most instances) but the long soft coil springs/flexy suspension, and tall profile tires setup that makes a 90 a great off roader are what makes it a horrible tow vehicle. Sure many here can point to experiences that have worked out but if you are planning ahead on PCA or SCCA events and long distances like coming down here to VIR why not just get something else and spare the 90 the abuse and yourself the potential danger ?

If you have to do it, get yourself a load leveling/weight distributing hitch. It will do wonders for safety and ride.
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  #23  
Old March 25th, 2014, 10:54 AM
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^^^^ 2x on ATs. 10000x on MTs.
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  #24  
Old March 25th, 2014, 10:55 AM
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Jason Lavender
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My experience (towing a mid-80s 25' Baja boat, which is large and heavy) is that my 110 towed it like a champ and the 90 made me fearful for my life.
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  #25  
Old March 25th, 2014, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
My experience (towing a mid-80s 25' Baja boat, which is large and heavy) is that my 110 towed it like a champ and the 90 made me fearful for my life.
Yeah I had a Baja 240 sport (24ft 454 powered) and I often used the 90 to move it to the marina and back because backing it down the driveway with the 90 was way easier than with the 110.
Turns the 90 did in reverse on first try were 5 point turns in the 110.
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  #26  
Old March 25th, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Jason Lavender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Yeah I had a Baja 240 sport (24ft 454 powered) and I often used the 90 to move it to the marina and back because backing it down the driveway with the 90 was way easier than with the 110.
Turns the 90 did in reverse on first try were 5 point turns in the 110.
Let's just say...the 90 does not like any "hills" whatsoever when towing that thing .
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  #27  
Old March 25th, 2014, 11:56 AM
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Mechanically, the D90 is identical to the D1 rated at 5,000 lbs apart from the wheelbase.

A trailer rental company will/might want to know the tow vehicle, the vehicle being transported, and will look up the rated towing capacity and transported vehicle weights.

If you have the skill and judgement to get around a wet race track in a 911, you could get it to the track behind the 90, in the same way nobody would hesitate to do so in Europe.
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  #28  
Old March 25th, 2014, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 1953lr80 View Post
Mechanically, the D90 is identical to the D1 rated at 5,000 lbs apart from the wheelbase.

A trailer rental company will/might want to know the tow vehicle, the vehicle being transported, and will look up the rated towing capacity and transported vehicle weights.

If you have the skill and judgement to get around a wet race track in a 911, you could get it to the track behind the 90, in the same way nobody would hesitate to do so in Europe.
Indeed. Speaking from experience as someone who has probably @ least 80,000 miles experience pulling a loaded car trailer with disco's, 90's,110's and 130's. I am also someone who has owned a couple very fast 911 3.2 and 3.6 liter turbo's. The only similar skill/judgement set is that in both, it will be the rear end kicking out. Just because a vehicle has a weight rating that works doesn't make it a good idea. Towing with short wheel base vehicles is dangerous, period.

Offering friendly advice based on my experiences. Experience is gained from moments of poor judgement. I have rolled a Discovery down i95 with a trailer and defender on the trailer after being nudged/clipped by a tandem semi, and I have spun out @ 120 plus in a 965 when a rear tire came apart. Both were freak accidents. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
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  #29  
Old March 25th, 2014, 02:04 PM
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Russell
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  #30  
Old March 25th, 2014, 03:24 PM
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Rick Mabus
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I am going to chime in here. I beg you not to tear up that race car, or that D90. My logic.

1. The factory tow reciever setup is weak. I backed into a pole with a bike rack in mine and bent the hitch.
2. Not having a brake controller is a massive no-no for the short wheel base.
3. The SWB alone makes turning on any incline or decline a really scary situation.

I used my truck to haul a bunch of go cart parts last Friday (see below) and it really was not the most confidence inspiring setup at speeds on the freeway. And this was a really light setup.

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  #31  
Old March 25th, 2014, 06:06 PM
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U-haul trailers weigh over 2500 lbs empty - no way would I tow a loaded U-haul behind a D-90.

I have towed my 1900 lb 356A all over the place on a friend of mines aluminum trailer. The trailer weighs about 900 lbs and has surge brakes. The short wheelbase makes you have to pay attention - the LR3 is a much better tow vehicle.

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  #32  
Old October 11th, 2014, 09:17 PM
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mark kellgren
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trying to read up on towing another car on a trailer. This has been helpful, but what's the opinion on doing this with a 110? How different will it be to a 90?
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  #33  
Old October 11th, 2014, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
trying to read up on towing another car on a trailer. This has been helpful, but what's the opinion on doing this with a 110? How different will it be to a 90?
110 will be better.
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  #34  
Old October 12th, 2014, 10:00 PM
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Peter Stolz
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78 Porsche 911 that's been backdated to a 73 RSR widebody
Very nice! Drag that rascal to Road America for the Hawk vintage weekend next July! They are such sweet cars, but I spend more money on my '73 RSR clone than I do on my Rover...and I drive it less.
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  #35  
Old October 14th, 2014, 08:03 AM
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I picked up a new-to-me E Prepared 78 SC 3.0 a few weeks ago - here's a shot from this weekend after the Club Race at Monticello Motor Club
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  #36  
Old October 14th, 2014, 02:18 PM
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Jon Ruti
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Originally Posted by Jas0n View Post
I picked up a new-to-me E Prepared 78 SC 3.0 a few weeks ago - here's a shot from this weekend after the Club Race at Monticello Motor Club
Looks nice
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  #37  
Old October 14th, 2014, 02:35 PM
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Ron
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How to reduce weight on your race car. Step 1

Put away the pavement-pounder and take up rallying.

take 8 tires to the rally, drive around in the dirt for two days, bring one tire home.

Profit!

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  #38  
Old October 14th, 2014, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Jas0n View Post
I picked up a new-to-me E Prepared 78 SC 3.0 a few weeks ago - here's a shot from this weekend after the Club Race at Monticello Motor Club
Can you please share your experience in towing that trailer with your race car on it?

I'm curious given all the advice that was given to you. You are alive, that is a good sign that towing with the 90 is possible
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  #39  
Old October 14th, 2014, 06:32 PM
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Stephan Laputka
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I've towed to many a NASA races at Pocono with a stock 94 D90 ST and a lifted 95 SW with no sways and a 4.6. My trailer is 1500 pounds steel with with a tire rack so probably 1750. It has no brakes. Car was an 89 Porsche 951. 2880 with half a tank of gas. After buying a Tundra to tow and looking back on it, you can do it but it's not good for the truck and if ANY emergency situation pops up, you're done for. The biggest issue is the wheel base and the brake bias on the D90. Don't nit pick the number, tools, oil, car, random crap, gas.. you're towing 5K. 10-12% of that has to be on the hitch to avoid swaying. you won't get the hitch weight perfect without a scale so assume you go heavy and you have 600 sitting on the hitch. the rear squat is manageable but the wheelbase causes the front to lift unlike a LWB vehicle. THAT is the biggest issue. For me, the front wheels would lock under any moderate braking. So yeah, the D-90 has great brakes but you can't only use 60% of them or the front locks. If you're really gonna do it then throw trailer brakes on it or use a weight distributing hitch.
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  #40  
Old October 15th, 2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Can you please share your experience in towing that trailer with your race car on it?

I'm curious given all the advice that was given to you. You are alive, that is a good sign that towing with the 90 is possible
I almost didn't go down this route at all - from everything I read, I expected a scene out of a Sylvester Stallone movie where the runaway train losses its brakes. But I did the research and eventually developed confidence that the 90 could handle it. So was I right? Depends.

I've taken about six different trips this year to various tracks, without issue. So in an absolute sense, it certainly can be done - and done safely, I believe. Towing to both Watkins Glen and Monticello Motor Club involve a few long, steep grades once you hit the Catskills where the truck's power deficit is painfully apparent. Nothing a downshift to 3rd gear doesn't help, but I do find myself wishing for more motor.

On flat terrain, its easy to run along at 65mph if you choose. But I tend to keep the speed closer to 58/60mph on the highway for a number of reasons ...

I don't find the short wheelbase to be too much of an issue; the rear end can be a bit lively under hard braking, but I haven't quite perfected the weight distribution so I expect that will help. (It also doesn't help that my car is currently pulling to the left under hard braking WITHOUT the trailer). There are times when the short wheelbase actually helps - backing up with the trailer, trying to negotiate tight areas.

My biggest concern - and I think this likely applies to towing with any vehicle - is how quickly I could slow the rig under emergency braking. My trailer has electronic brakes (controlled by a very trick Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake controller), so that certainly helps. I also keep the boost level quite high, knowing that means that it sometimes pushes the Defender a bit. But I find myself being much more cautious at speed with merging traffic. Stop and go traffic hasn't been an issue at all.

I ended up with a trailer that's much heavier than I was looking for - it has a very cool tilting feature that makes it very easy to use and I found that alluring. But between the weight and the length (the ramps are essentially built into the bed), I'm likely going to sell it and replace it with a 16' aluminum trailer in the off-season. That should save me between 600 and 800 pounds. And I think that will make the towing experience much more enjoyable.
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