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  #1  
Old January 17th, 2016, 01:58 PM
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Ed
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Things Were Going Great...Until Now

Just installed my 2.5 NA in my 1984 110 after removing and palletizing the 300 TDI in prep for legal export to the US. Problem is, the clutch will not disengage now. Peddle had resistance on first depression, but has almost no resistance all the way to the floor. Here is what I did during engine swap:

1. Kept LT77 with short bellhousing in-situ
2. Kept the clutch release bearing and fork in place.
3. Kept the pressure plate and clutch from the 2.5 NA
4. Inspected friction plate for wear and spring function -- all good
5. Reinstalled 2.5 NA clutch plate and friction plate and installed 2.5 NA

Couple of issues that I see.
1. I may have hyperextended the slave cylinder by depressing the clutch while towing (habit); however, no fluid is leaking from the slave or bellhousing and the master cylinder is still full.
2. There may be a chance that the clutch release bearing used for the 300 TDI is not appropriate for the 2.5 NA? Figured since I didn't modify the LT77 bellhousing (short), it didn't matter.
3. I was very careful when replacing the clutch, but I guess there is a small chance that I installed it backwards....

First thing I'm going to do tomorrow is remove the slave cylinder to verify I did not hyper-extend it.


Any help is appreciated.
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  #2  
Old January 17th, 2016, 04:36 PM
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Robert Davis
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The clutch release bearing is different among the 300TDI and the 2.5 N/A.
The 300TDI release bearing is taller and generally causes the clutch to slip with a short belhousing transmission.
I would pull the slave cylinder and reach in and move the release lever to get an idea of just what sort of distance in movement you have.
Be careful to NOT pull the rod off the lever.
Likely you also need to adjust the master cylinder as well after the engine swap.
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  #3  
Old January 18th, 2016, 12:22 PM
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Ed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
The clutch release bearing is different among the 300TDI and the 2.5 N/A.
The 300TDI release bearing is taller and generally causes the clutch to slip with a short belhousing transmission.
I would pull the slave cylinder and reach in and move the release lever to get an idea of just what sort of distance in movement you have.
Be careful to NOT pull the rod off the lever.
Likely you also need to adjust the master cylinder as well after the engine swap.

Thank you. I pulled the slave cylinder and there is no resistance in the rod. It is still connected to the fork and I'm fairly confident I can hear the fork moving back and forth. Unfortunately, I can't feel the clutch release bearing hitting the clutch plate, even with the rod pushed in as far as I can get it.


Time to pull the engine -- again. Getting pretty good at it by now... I believe it is the clutch release bearing, but based on my limited research, all the clutch components (clutch plate, friction plate and release bearing) are the same for both the TDI and 2.5 NA. However, you're saying the 300 TDI is taller. If that's the case, I would be having the opposite problem -- clutch constantly disengaging, vice always engaged.


Again, I believe I have a short bell housing. I measures 5 5/8" from the end of the 2.5 NA flywheel housing to the beginning of the gearbox.


Man, I hope I didn't dork this up... Thanks for any help.
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  #4  
Old January 19th, 2016, 09:45 AM
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Could really use some help here on this. Any other options than pulling the motor? Anyone run into this problem? Why is it that the input shaft is in position and functioning, but the clutch release bearing is not engaging. How can it be that far out of whack?

I could see that if I was putting the 2.5 on a long bellhousing that things wouldn't mesh, but doesn't a 2.5 NA fit on the LT77 with a short bell hosuing out of the factory? Are the clutch forks different? Anything?

Thanks
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  #5  
Old January 19th, 2016, 10:39 AM
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Chris
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My sense from your posts is that you are putting a 300 in where a 200 would drop in. So the question may rest on the differences between the 200 and 300 set ups.
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Old January 19th, 2016, 11:15 AM
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Haven't had your issue. The only way to fix it is to pull the engine or trans.

As said above the short bell housing r380 uses a shorter throw out bearing than the normal diesel lt77/r380 which sounds like the reverse of your issue, and you didn't change transmissions.

Any chance the plastic staple came out on install that holds the fork to the throw out bearing and your fork isn't engaging the throw out bearing ?

Another possibility, one I have experienced, is that the pivot ball that the fork uses as a fulcrum point has pushed through your clutch fork. Have had this happen and I now only use the HD/reinforced (simply a second layer of metal welded on as a band-aid) clutch forks.
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  #7  
Old January 19th, 2016, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
My sense from your posts is that you are putting a 300 in where a 200 would drop in. So the question may rest on the differences between the 200 and 300 set ups.
Well, not exactly. I know it is counterintuitive, but I am putting the 2.5NA in where a 300 TDI came out of. Long story, but I'm putting the truck back to original to make it export legal.

Thanks
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  #8  
Old January 19th, 2016, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Haven't had your issue. The only way to fix it is to pull the engine or trans.

As said above the short bell housing r380 uses a shorter throw out bearing than the normal diesel lt77/r380 which sounds like the reverse of your issue, and you didn't change transmissions.

Any chance the plastic staple came out on install that holds the fork to the throw out bearing and your fork isn't engaging the throw out bearing ?

Another possibility, one I have experienced, is that the pivot ball that the fork uses as a fulcrum point has pushed through your clutch fork. Have had this happen and I now only use the HD/reinforced (simply a second layer of metal welded on as a band-aid) clutch forks.
Thanks -- guess there is no getting around pulling it out again, huh? Assume once the engine is out I need to:

- check for correct friction plate install
- check release bearing servicablity/function
- check clutch fork serviceability/function.

If all checks-out, I then need to measure the distance from the end of the brass crankshaft bushing to clutch plate tines. Assume that should be the same distance between the tip of the input shaft and the furthest back the release bearing travels on the shaft. Will also test it prior to the wrench-down of all the bellhousing and engine mount bolts.

Man, thought I had it licked. Had a hard enough time sourcing and welding-in the frame mounts that were cut out. Oh, well. What does your sig say, "Wisdom comes from poor judgement?" How true.
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  #9  
Old January 22nd, 2016, 03:38 PM
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Okay, I think I may have found the issue. The Haynes manual (section 6.2) states that when refitting the clutch one should, "offer the disc to the flywheel, with the greater projecting side of the hub facing the flywheel" It caveats this statement with, "(most friction discs will have a Flywheel side or FW SIDE marking, which should face the flywheel)."


The flywheel I removed did not have a marking, so after checking for wear, I reassembled it with the projecting side facing the flywheel -- per Haynes instructions.


The new clutch I just purchased is clearly stamped with "FLYWHEEL SIDE" on the NON-projecting side of the clutch. So, before I yank the engine out tomorrow, can someone confirm which of these instructions is correct for a 1984 Land Rover 110? Clutch projecting side towards the flywheel, or away from the flywheel?


Thank You
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  #10  
Old January 22nd, 2016, 03:42 PM
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1) Use the marking on the clutch....

2) Burn the Haynes manual.

3) Get a genuine manual.
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