The Official 4.6 Conversion Thread - Page 2 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old January 25th, 2010, 08:36 PM
LRover's Avatar
LRover
Status: Offline
J. Michael McCaig
D90 ST, LR110, Series IIa, RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 479
If you are going to use a 4.6 with a distributor, you will need the front cover off your old engine (distributor type) and you will need to replace the cam with one with a drive gear for the distributor.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #22  
Old January 25th, 2010, 09:51 PM
mattm's Avatar
mattm
Status: Offline
Matthias Moran
1963 109
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattm View Post
I did a little more reading and apparently it's the oil pump that isn't always transferable. Anyone throw any more light on this one ?

The reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking of taking the short block out of my son's 93 disco to put in my NAS 110.
er... that should have read 03 not 93.
I know about the front cover and camshaft issues, also about having to skim the heads but is there anything else ? Does the oil pump from a 3.9 fit onto the 4.6 block ?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old January 26th, 2010, 12:21 AM
LRover's Avatar
LRover
Status: Offline
J. Michael McCaig
D90 ST, LR110, Series IIa, RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 479
The oil pump bolts to the front cover. Use the front cover and everything else from your 93, just make sure you use the front cover gasket for the front cover not the later model engine as the pickup tube oil passage hole you need is blocked in the later model gasket. I did not skim my heads. If you decide to use later heads than your current heads, check and make sure all the necessary tapped holes are in the head for the alternator etc. brackets. I used the new style head and valley pan gaskets. I made a crankshaft spacer out of the old timing gear as the 4.6 crankshaft is longer at the front and you need the spacer to hold the pully on. There is a dowel in the rear of the crankshaft for the late model torque converter that you need to remove or cut off in order to bolt up the flywheel. You will need a new camshaft with distributer drive gear and lifters. I made up a plug to fill the hole for the knock sensor. Everything else bolts up as it should. As evilfij said, use the 4.2 ecu.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #24  
Old January 26th, 2010, 12:58 AM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,504
Well said and covered, Michael. I am also running my original 3.9 cover with distributor drive on my '94 with the 4.6 block. I am running a 14CUX with the 4.2 cold prom chip (which I hear are hard to find now? Not sure--I can't see why it would be). I like my older v-belt set up--easier to add accessories and diagnose bearing/engine noise. Just thought I would through that out there. Made making and mounting a york air compressor bracket a piece of cake for onboard air. The serpentine belt set up with the crank driven oil pump is very good too, I know, just saying the older style works just fine too.

For the skimmed heads, are you folks talking about due to the thickness of the old style gaskets being thinner than the composite so you skim it to take up that difference? I know others skim their heads for compression then take it out of the cylinder to gain some power--I know of a few that have used the taller 4.0 pistons with a 4.6 rod/crank and took some material out of the piston. all sorts of mods to these buick beauties...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old January 26th, 2010, 10:21 AM
mattm's Avatar
mattm
Status: Offline
Matthias Moran
1963 109
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 96
Thanks for all the help.
On the question of "to skim or not to skim"
If you don't skim them then can you run regular gas instead of premium ?
I guess most people don't drive their defenders enough that the cost of gas is a concern.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old January 26th, 2010, 12:37 PM
LRover's Avatar
LRover
Status: Offline
J. Michael McCaig
D90 ST, LR110, Series IIa, RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 479
Yes, I did not skim the heads so that when I used the thicker late style gaskets it helped drop the compression where I could run regular gas and I do.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old January 26th, 2010, 02:18 PM
Neil McCauley's Avatar
Neil McCauley
Status: Offline
Neil McCauley
94 ST, 97 ST, 93 110
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,366
heh
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	this_thread_again.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	61.5 KB
ID:	24725  
__________________
A guy told me one time "don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat from around the corner"

Robert Deniro
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old January 26th, 2010, 05:02 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,525
Registry
I thought "skimming" the heads was a must.


I would be interested to see the 4.0 pistons in the 4.6. The compression doesnt seem that high for pump fuel, the difference between the capacity of the 4.0 vs. 4.6 piston was quite a bit.
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old January 26th, 2010, 10:29 PM
3rovers's Avatar
3rovers
Status: Offline
Dennis Yard
1993 NAS D-110 #55
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 125
In my upgrade, we did skim the heads by 0.037" to compensate for the composite gaskets. This keeps the compression up. Yes, i expect to use premium as it doesnt get a lot of total mileage.

Also we did pretty much everything that Mr McCraig did above. Reused all the 93 timing cover, oil pump, brackets and v belts. For the crank spacer, we used one that RPI sells.

For the chip, I got a Mark Adams labled for NAS DS-110. But it does call out an 800 rpm idle speed, whereas the published spec is 720 or so. I'm hoping this doesn't give me a CA smog test issue.

Since I haven't finished the project yet, i can't comment on its worth yet in torque and power. But will chime in after we get a few miles on it.

Which brings up the question: is there a way of getting a full time four wheel drive truck on a dynamometer to see what the final horsepower is?

Cheers,
Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old January 27th, 2010, 01:29 AM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,504
The only way I have seen the dyno run is with the center diff locked and a shaft out.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old October 27th, 2010, 11:52 AM
Jon_Winningham's Avatar
Jon_Winningham
Status: Offline
Sterling M Archer
1995 AA Yellow NAS D90 #2986
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 728
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Having been around a few of these, my suggestion would be to change as little as possible and still get the 4.6 you want.

In that regard, I would suggest a 4.6 short block, skimmed and rebuilt stock heads, a crower cam, a 4.2 RRC LWB ecu and whatever else new you want in/on the motor. Leaving everything but the block and chip and cam the same makes everything more understandable for repairs.
I am getting ready to do the 4.6 swap with a new 4.6 block, rebuilt R380 and LT230Q 1.4.
My question is how much performance do you gain from upgrading the cam? Is it worth it?
Did you guys install new injectors, valuves and springs too?
__________________
1995 NAS Defender 90 AA Yellow #2986: Current
2009 Range Rover Supercharged Black/Black: Current

1993 NAS Defender 110 #375/500: Sold
1995 NAS Defender 90 Soft Top Beluga Black #2556: Sold
1991 Range Rover Hunter Green: Sold
1997 NAS Defender 90 Station Wagon Portofino Red #128: Sold
1993 NAS Defender 110 Beluga Black #215/500: sold
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old October 27th, 2010, 01:22 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Do the cam.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old October 27th, 2010, 01:33 PM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,835
Registry
agreed and a cloyes or other double row timing chain
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old October 27th, 2010, 01:42 PM
Jon_Winningham's Avatar
Jon_Winningham
Status: Offline
Sterling M Archer
1995 AA Yellow NAS D90 #2986
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 728
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
agreed and a cloyes or other double row timing chain
so maybe a kit from Summit Racing?
wonder which one...
__________________
1995 NAS Defender 90 AA Yellow #2986: Current
2009 Range Rover Supercharged Black/Black: Current

1993 NAS Defender 110 #375/500: Sold
1995 NAS Defender 90 Soft Top Beluga Black #2556: Sold
1991 Range Rover Hunter Green: Sold
1997 NAS Defender 90 Station Wagon Portofino Red #128: Sold
1993 NAS Defender 110 Beluga Black #215/500: sold
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old October 27th, 2010, 01:44 PM
The Dro
Status: Offline
Dro
1988 Ninety
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 6,690
Registry
I had to put this transmission project on hold...

I got this info from talking to Dave Ashcroft and some other folks that have done this in the past.

You can mate it to the ZF 4HP22 with the more robust 4HP24 parts (4HP24: crank parts, inners, front end, bellhousing and torque converter, etc).

Good explanation by Dave A.:

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co...d&productId=51

Stage 2 is the route to go.

------ Follow up post added October 27th, 2010 02:16 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Winningham View Post
I am getting ready to do the 4.6 swap with a new 4.6 block, rebuilt R380 and LT230Q 1.4.
My question is how much performance do you gain from upgrading the cam? Is it worth it?
Did you guys install new injectors, valuves and springs too?
Here some part number from other guys that have done this:

Crower Cam - Part# 50229

Crower Lifters - Part# 66050X3-16

Cloyes Heavy-Duty Timing Set - Part# CLO-C-3003K
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old October 27th, 2010, 02:22 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
You can get a kit from Mark at D&D Automotive. Not sure how much it is for a dizzy truck.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old October 27th, 2010, 04:36 PM
The Dro
Status: Offline
Dro
1988 Ninety
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Annandale, VA
Posts: 6,690
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
You can get a kit from Mark at D&D Automotive. Not sure how much it is for a dizzy truck.
x2. I forgot about that one too.

www.aluminumv8.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
conversion

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4.6 conversion experiences nikojo Defender Technical Discussions 35 June 25th, 2017 10:45 AM
4.0 to 4.6 parts? gtg067i Defender Technical Discussions 6 September 11th, 2010 08:40 AM
D-110 3.9 to 4.6 L Conversion To Begin 3rovers Defender Technical Discussions 22 March 6th, 2010 12:10 AM
3.9 to 4.6 1995 D-90 boxerhips Defender Technical Discussions 5 January 25th, 2006 07:20 PM
Transfer Case Lever Thread Size? ronward Defender Technical Discussions 4 August 30th, 2004 02:26 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:21 PM.


Copyright