The *official* 300 TDi Performance Thread - Page 3 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old November 17th, 2008, 10:29 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland 110
Joel,
Congrats on your purchase ! The trick on the vacuum lines is to drill into and tap the intake manifold and plumb the "t" thats on the output side of the turbo into the manifold-block off the current location. By doing this the wastegate and injection pump get a true manifold boost pressure instead of a signal before the air is pushed through the pipes and intercooler.
Hey,

Do you have a pic of this before and after? Or after? I'm confused.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #42  
Old November 18th, 2008, 12:21 AM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Well what he means is that the most accurate way to determine the level of boost that actually enters the engine is to check it at the intake manifold (which is as far "downstream" as you can get in the intake system before entering the cylinder head). Remember temperature and volume have a large effect on pressure (which is what you want for the IP, boost guage, and wastegate) so in order to get the most accurate reading you need to get it from the manifold, rather than the turbo housing.

Remember the ideal gas law from high school physics? Well I do, because after sleeping through it I had to be tutored after school by a cute blonde with huge tits. 10 years later here is what I remember: pv=mrt
or more simply: Pressure x Volume = Moles x Ideal Gas Constant x Temperature.

See the air gets sucked out of the air cleaner, into the turbo, then blown through the tubing to the intercooler, through the intercooler, then finally to the intake manifold. In the process the actual pressure has almost certianly changed, due to the large volume of air it takes to fill the piping and intercooler, and the fact that (hopefully) the intercooler has dropped the temp of the air charge somewhat- affecting the "V" and the "T".

Someone feel free to correct me, like I said I am a noob when it comes to turbo and diesel theory.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old November 18th, 2008, 07:55 AM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,839
Registry
Joel nailed it. By fitting a bigger intercooler you get a cooler, more dense charge.
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #44  
Old November 18th, 2008, 11:06 AM
pendy's Avatar
pendy
Status: Offline
jim pendleton
89'd90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: andover, ks usa
Posts: 2,341
I have talked endlessly about this. Have you not even read what I bothered to post in your thread? Here is a suggestion on how to implement on a 2.8l. You can see the line running to the intake instead of the intercooler housing.

Uuughh

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland 110
Joel nailed it. By fitting a bigger intercooler you get a cooler, more dense charge.
This does not really have anything to do with moving the pressure signal source. Moving the source will help a stock intercooler as well.

Pics of tutor or band!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	yevty%20014.jpg
Views:	422
Size:	74.2 KB
ID:	16451  
__________________
legend in my own mind

Advice is only as good as the person applying it--
Don't make me give you bad advice!

Lemons or lemonaide, whatever your taste provides.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old November 18th, 2008, 06:56 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I have talked endlessly about this. Have you not even read what I bothered to post in your thread? Here is a suggestion on how to implement on a 2.8l. You can see the line running to the intake instead of the intercooler housing.

Uuughh

Follow-up Post:



This does not really have anything to do with moving the pressure signal source. Moving the source will help a stock intercooler as well.

Pics of tutor or band!
Easy there Jimmy. I only see one mention of it and that is not the easiest to understand. Run it to the air intake, check. Then what. Thats why I was hoping for the pictures.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old November 18th, 2008, 10:21 PM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Run it to the air intake, check. Then what. Thats why I was hoping for the pictures.
Thats it.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old November 18th, 2008, 10:25 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14
Thats it.
So show me where you drilled an tapped the hole.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old November 18th, 2008, 11:27 PM
pendy's Avatar
pendy
Status: Offline
jim pendleton
89'd90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: andover, ks usa
Posts: 2,341
There is a plug at the back of the intake manifold. You can remove it and tap to 1/4 pipe. Or tap the plug to 1/8" pipe. You want to plumb in the injection pump and turbo wastegate. I would run the boost gauge from there as well. So three lines tee into the back of the intake manifold.

Buy em' books and send em' to school- geesh
__________________
legend in my own mind

Advice is only as good as the person applying it--
Don't make me give you bad advice!

Lemons or lemonaide, whatever your taste provides.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old November 19th, 2008, 09:43 AM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Where are my pictures!!



Seriously though, it would still be helpful, but I think I can get it done without. Thanks
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old November 25th, 2008, 11:24 AM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Ill try and remember to take some when I get around to doing mine.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old November 25th, 2008, 05:11 PM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
After looking all over, the EGR block off looks as good a place as any for the EGT probe- where have you guys installed yours?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old November 25th, 2008, 09:35 PM
revor's Avatar
revor
Status: Offline
Keith Kreutzer
Old beat up 110
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 998
This works fine but it will need to be instaklled a 45 degree angle.

Call me David, I'll walk you through the moving of said boost control plumbing...
__________________
Keith

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Big, Red and ... aaa Red..
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old November 25th, 2008, 10:56 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by revor
This works fine but it will need to be instaklled a 45 degree angle.

Call me David, I'll walk you through the moving of said boost control plumbing...
Thanks! Will do.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old November 26th, 2008, 06:56 AM
junkyddog11's Avatar
junkyddog11
Status: Offline
oil soaked filter
95 RRC 300tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No. Berwick, Maine
Posts: 1,253
I've been playing with running the boost signal to the IP from the turbo AND the intake which gives a nice "blend" of the instant effect at the turbo and the more accurate actual pressure from the manifold and the resulting quicker response. Gave a better "throttle" response and allowed a little more pre boost spring pressure (star wheel) so snappy response with less smoke.
I'm running the signal to the wastegate (and the boost gauge) from the manifold for accuracy where it may count.
__________________
Matt Browne


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old November 26th, 2008, 07:40 AM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by revor
This works fine but it will need to be instaklled a 45 degree angle.

Call me David, I'll walk you through the moving of said boost control plumbing...
That might complicate things a little...
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old November 26th, 2008, 08:24 PM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Sure enough, the EGR block off is NOT really a viable option since you want to probe to actually be directly in the exhaust flow, and the design of the manifold sorta hampers this. I could fabricate a plate that bolts on like the block off and positions the probe correctly, but drilling and tapping the manifold is looking like the better option. But WHERE?? I cant find a good spot really. Might have to just drill right into the "log"?

I DID manage to get the plug in the rear of the intake drilled, tapped and fitted with a barb so I could run the wastegate and boost guage properly. The reference for the IP I left in its original position for now, but thinking about it after the fact this could be problematic if I developed a boost leak while on a long trip, might overfuel?
Took a few pics, but apparantly have to resize them all. [img]images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

ALSO I fiddled with the pump a little, one turn on the smoke screw, 90 degrees on the diaphragm, and 6 clicks on the star wheel. Not really the WOW I was expecting, and I may need to back off the smoke screw some, I will fine tune it once I get the EGT situated.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old November 27th, 2008, 05:57 AM
junkyddog11's Avatar
junkyddog11
Status: Offline
oil soaked filter
95 RRC 300tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: No. Berwick, Maine
Posts: 1,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14
Sure enough, the EGR block off is NOT really a viable option since you want to probe to actually be directly in the exhaust flow, and the design of the manifold sorta hampers this. .
...errr not really. I've installed many in this spot as well as the same cast area in the 200 manifold and get what i would consider to be a very good result.


I only say this as I have also installed directly in the manifold with the same resulting readings. The trick is to just get the probe in at an angle and as deep as possible and you're good.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P9030158.JPG
Views:	268
Size:	47.6 KB
ID:	16597   Click image for larger version

Name:	P9030159.JPG
Views:	573
Size:	55.3 KB
ID:	16598  

__________________
Matt Browne


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old November 28th, 2008, 10:51 PM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Nice, might switch back to that plan then. Didnt really want to drill into the manifold.





-----------------------------------------------------

Follow-up Post:

1st pic- showing location of 17mm plug on rear of intake manifold

2nd- plug in vise ready to be drilled/tapped (no drill press at the time)

3rd- plug with new street elbow and hose barb installed

4th- plug reinstalled into manifold

5th- boost guage and wastegate now plumbed to intake manifold

6th- block off the old port (note I still have the IP reference signal in the original spot)

7th- anyone know what this blue plug is for? cylinder head temp?

8th- it appears that my engine used to use a TPS? it is no longer hooked to anything however.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	100_5417.jpg
Views:	297
Size:	437.3 KB
ID:	16630   Click image for larger version

Name:	100_5418.jpg
Views:	231
Size:	503.8 KB
ID:	16631  

Click image for larger version

Name:	100_5421.jpg
Views:	241
Size:	346.4 KB
ID:	16632   Click image for larger version

Name:	100_5423.jpg
Views:	250
Size:	405.7 KB
ID:	16633  

Click image for larger version

Name:	100_5425.jpg
Views:	279
Size:	433.1 KB
ID:	16634   Click image for larger version

Name:	100_5426.jpg
Views:	291
Size:	424.8 KB
ID:	16635  

Click image for larger version

Name:	100_5429.jpg
Views:	264
Size:	480.6 KB
ID:	16636   Click image for larger version

Name:	100_5430.JPG
Views:	265
Size:	476.4 KB
ID:	16637  

Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old December 13th, 2008, 10:14 AM
crown14's Avatar
crown14
Status: Offline
Verticalscrote
Volkswagen Super Beetle
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 44 Nas Row, Inter Net, USA
Posts: 3,285
Registry
Thought I would mention I finally got my probe installed in the EGR block-off, using Matt's method above.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old December 13th, 2008, 01:24 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
Great pics. Thank you very much.

Have you driven it yet? Did you notice any difference in performance?
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
300 tdi, tdi

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
300 Tdi A/C question... roverboy Defender Technical Discussions 3 September 17th, 2005 02:15 PM
1995 SW 300 Tdi neo812 For Sale - Vehicles 6 July 31st, 2005 04:55 PM
1995 Land Rover NAS Defender 90 ST (300 Tdi) MDS For Sale - Vehicles 7 March 4th, 2005 08:55 PM
MTL prices in Mass, 300 Tdi oil artm Defender Technical Discussions 4 September 10th, 2004 11:45 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 AM.


Copyright