The Impossible Import: 25+ RHD 110 w/300TDi - Defender Source
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View Poll Results: What are the odds of this being a success?
0% (I work for the EPA and will personally get on this) 7 70.00%
10% (I'm an RI who handled my own from cradle to grave) 0 0%
15% (I've heard too many horror stories and no successful ones, but see them in the US) 2 20.00%
>15% (Someone with enough determination will make it happen) 1 10.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old August 17th, 2013, 05:36 PM
Jdc0430
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Jonathan
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Question The Impossible Import: 25+ RHD 110 w/300TDi

I've been selfish. I've been reading all these posts from different forums and offering nothing back to the community. It was a recent post by a military member that made me create this account and try it myself while documenting this $h!+storm I'm probably getting myself into.

I'm going to attempt the impossible: I am trying to export my right hand drive Defender from the UK to the States and/or Canada. I've read about 400,000 articles on this this the past 5 or so months and it's now time to ship my 110. Problem is, as everyone has ran across, is that she was a V8 off the Solihull line 28 years ago, but was engine swapped after a collision sometime in 94.

So far:

DOT - Pass (25+ rule)
EPA - Pending loophole
CPB - Pending EPA rule

There's much more to this, but wanted to start the post in hopes others out there have uncovered anything I've missed.

Here's what I'm researching:
- An approved EPA configuration for the LR TDi 300 after 1985
- Approved EPA Exemption Waiver examples for:
--Hardship (yes, I've read the EPA's "example")
--Non-Residents (Dual national?)
--Foreign Military (I work for a non-US military installation)
- Pics of CPB destroyed Defenders (I've read EastCoast's stories)
- Pics of approved/sanitized customs clearance for successes in my situation
- Examples of "red flags":
--Smooth roof upgrade?
--Disco seating upgrade?
--My Defender looking too awesome?
- Recommended ICI's to convert (if needed) and ballpark pricing (links help!)
- Does Rover's North's 300TDi upgrade help EPA exemption decision?

That's some of the stuff; there's obviously more, but just wanted to get some feedback.
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  #2  
Old August 17th, 2013, 06:12 PM
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Oscar
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You are already starting off on the wrong foot seeing as though your 110 has the wrong engine in it. That's already enough cause to stop your import.

Sell it and get another. Might as well get LHD while your at it as RHD takes a huge hit price wise if you decide to sell.
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  #3  
Old August 17th, 2013, 06:34 PM
Jdc0430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
You are already starting off on the wrong foot seeing as though your 110 has the wrong engine in it. That's already enough cause to stop your import.

Sell it and get another. Might as well get LHD while your at it as RHD takes a huge hit price wise if you decide to sell.
Yup, that's what I've heard as well. I didn't want this to be a defensive posting...I'm trying to find a way to open the gates to allow Defenders into the US that aren't NAS or 100% original. Unmodified means different things to the EPA and I believe there is a way to allow this. I'm not looking for the easy way on this and I am not looking for resale.

Page 2: (www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/engswitch_0.pdf‎)
"EPA's policy allows engine switches as long as the resulting vehicle matches exactly to anv certified configuration of the same or newer model year as the chassis"

If there's a 300TDi that was on a certified configuration, then it could be possible. However, there are other exemptions the EPA offers and ICIs have the ability to make compliant. I hope you can offer info on the other pieces of info in the original post. Regardless of the wrong foot, many (and MANY as you know) people want the Defender in the US and it will help calm this outrageous aftermarket mark-up.

I do appreciate the advice--
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  #4  
Old August 17th, 2013, 06:36 PM
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Robert Davis
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You have 0% chance... and

The voting options are silly and worded so poorly, I will not vote on this one.

I think you have a 0% chance:
0% (I work for the EPA and will personally get on this)

Since I do NOT work for EPA, there is no voting choice for me and most members that have good sense.
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  #5  
Old August 17th, 2013, 06:52 PM
Jdc0430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
There are those that think they can argue the age of the 200TDI and win and bring up 300TDI exceptions which ever they are and still import
I would LOVE to hear what some of them are!

Quote:
So here is the list:
Engine: 2.25 P or D, 2.5 P or D or J19 TD, or Rover 3.5 V8 (others will attract attention, possibly a crushing attention).
I thought if the CPB VIN database spits out a say...V8 VIN and they hear my OEM 2.5 TDi, then that's what is the trigger? I'm not intending to sound offbase, but other than a Chevy symbol on an engine of the Defender, what types cause attention and is it as simple as reading TD5 on a classic import where the agent then says "this doesn't seem right"? I'm just trying to get a feel for the entry procedures where EPA relies on CPB to enforce their standards as they make decisions from DC/Michigan

Quote:
Frame must have a matching vin to ID tag and not be galvanized.
Check! (Original chassis)
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  #6  
Old August 17th, 2013, 07:23 PM
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They will run the vin, it will say it's a petrol, your V5 say's heavy oil...

posting in a public forum with the details of your illegal import isn't exactly "smart"
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  #7  
Old August 17th, 2013, 07:38 PM
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Sounds like an expensive experiment. I sure wouldn't try, but go right ahead...
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  #8  
Old August 17th, 2013, 07:42 PM
Jdc0430
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
They will run the vin, it will say it's a petrol, your V5 say's heavy oil...

posting in a public forum with the details of your illegal import isn't exactly "smart"
I didn't post on here to look for illegal ways to import my vehicle. I posted specifically here because I'm hoping there are folks out there who have seen this first hand and can offer advice on how to do this the legal way under my or similar circumstances. All the info I've been researching has ways, but again, real examples are helpful. I TOTALLY get it that "it can't be done" or "it'll get crushed", but I'd be more content with no responses which would say more than the impossible (hence the thread name).

As an aside, I offered the poll at the top for those wanting to tell the viewers their thought on the probability of success without having to waste their time writing how it won't happen.

------ Follow up post added August 17th, 2013 05:45 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis View Post
Sounds like an expensive experiment. I sure wouldn't try, but go right ahead...
Thanks! Where there's a will, there's a way--
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  #9  
Old August 17th, 2013, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdc0430 View Post

Thanks! Where there's a will, there's a way--

Email Bill Gates he can tell you how to go about it...
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  #10  
Old August 17th, 2013, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post

Email Bill Gates he can tell you how to go about it...
Yep ... Took him more than 10years even with his money and influence.
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  #11  
Old August 17th, 2013, 09:47 PM
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Frank Rafka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdc0430 View Post
I didn't post on here to look for illegal ways to import my vehicle. I posted specifically here because I'm hoping there are folks out there who have seen this first hand and can offer advice on how to do this the legal way under my or similar circumstances. All the info I've been researching has ways, but again, real examples are helpful. I TOTALLY get it that "it can't be done" or "it'll get crushed", but I'd be more content with no responses which would say more than the impossible (hence the thread name).

As an aside, I offered the poll at the top for those wanting to tell the viewers their thought on the probability of success without having to waste their time writing how it won't happen.

------ Follow up post added August 17th, 2013 05:45 PM ------

Thanks! Where there's a will, there's a way--
The poll is stupid...
If you want a serious answer, contact Doug Crowther, he's has a wealth of experience in this area
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  #12  
Old August 17th, 2013, 09:58 PM
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Make your own risk assessment. Talk to people that know and not just opine shit in a forum with zero consequences.( I include myself in the latter category) . Import your truck and are what happens.... Our opinions will make f'all difference.
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Quote:
Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
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  #13  
Old August 17th, 2013, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mongosd2 View Post
The poll is stupid...
If you want a serious answer, contact Doug Crowther, he's has a wealth of experience in this area
Thank you but no.
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  #14  
Old August 17th, 2013, 10:41 PM
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It can be legally imported to CANADA as long as it is 15 years old from the month/year of manufacture. As long as you have the proper ownership paperwork and you have it professionally cleaned of all soil contaminents (preferably with a certificate to prove it) it can be imported. It wont matter to Canadian customs what engine it has or what modifications that have been done as long as the VIN matches the paperwork.

Only problem is you will have to have a Canadian address and the ability to insure it in Canada.
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  #15  
Old August 17th, 2013, 11:59 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you are primarily looking to get US market dollars for your UK Defender. If so I would imagine old gas Rover V8's in the UK are like SBC motors here - easy to get. Get it back to stock with an original motor (I'd even get rid of the Disco seats and the like) and then export it. Then sell the 300tdi.

Or trade your nice fixed up rig for an original ratty one and then export that.

There is a good amount posted on here - some right, some wrong and a lot I am not sure about but read enough of it and who is posting what and you should have a decent idea of what the current import/export state is right now.
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  #16  
Old August 18th, 2013, 02:20 AM
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Sounds like you are planning to have an argument with customs, in court because your position wont be settled dockside. $$$$$

If you think that is worth the time money and stress knock your self out. I was stressed the #$%^ out on my first import (and it was 100% conforming). My second and third imports were no brainers but I didn't try to slip anything past customs and I avoided trucks that had a bunch of work done.

The gates are wide open already as long as you have an original truck. Unless you're just stupid rich and have money flowing out of your gold plated bidet I don't get your point. Are you planning on importing a bunch of Defenders? If you aren't and your are trying to fix something for "the community" I think those that are already importing trucks have it pretty well figured out. The 25 year rule has been around for a long time.

as far as wether or not your truck will make it in... 50%. It will or it wont, and you will not know till you get that call from your customs broker. I would rather sit back relaxed knowing that I don't have to possibly present a case to the government explaining why they are wrong. How much do you have wrapped up in your defender?
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  #17  
Old August 18th, 2013, 09:19 AM
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Just wondering what state are you going to bring it through. I brought in my left hand defender 90, 300tdi through Chicago and had no problems what so ever. The customs guys here when we talked to them said that as long as you were bringing it in for private use they didn't really worry too much about it. now this was 2.25 years ago... things could have changed, but when we called up customs to talk to them about bringing one over the guy said that we would be fine because we were bringing it in for private use. They were looking for the people bringing a bunch in to sell off. When we picked it up the paper work showed that they hadn't even opened the container to inspect it, they just let it roll right through.
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Old August 18th, 2013, 09:29 AM
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What's the VIN?
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I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
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  #19  
Old August 18th, 2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USLandy View Post
as long as you were bringing it in for private use they didn't really worry too much about it. now this was 2.25 years ago... things could have changed
You clearly don't frequent the different forums. Things have radically changed since last fall. There are threads everywhere. If the original poster had truly read all the 400,000 threads he indicates he has read this spring and had gained the knowledge he alludes to, he should have no questions.

As stated above all land rovers are "advance targeted" when the security filing is made and Land Rover pops up, before ever getting on a ship. This means 100% physical inspections whether container or ro/ro. Pictures are taken by Customs and forwarded to EPA,DOT, and Land Rover. DOT and Land Rover are looking for any modifications that will negate the trucks eligibility for the 25 yr waiver which requires that the vehicle be all original. Seats,dash,door, smooth roof, alloy wheels, obviously modified suspension, will all get you snagged. Epa will decoded the vin- the engine the truck left solihull with needs to be whats under the hood, not the exact engine but an exact replacement, no exceptions. So if Customs sends them a picture of a 300 tdi and vin says V8 you are done. This process takes weeks regardless of port.

I handled 28 trucks last month. The key is all original.
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  #20  
Old August 18th, 2013, 10:04 AM
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Since the 300 tdi didn't exist until 1994 MY, you are inviting CBP to crush your vehicle.
That's probably just the first violation CBP will find justifying destruction.
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