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  #1  
Old October 27th, 2011, 08:28 AM
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the best 2.8 Mod ever

I want to make sweet, sweet love to my max fueling screw, is that so wrong?

2 weeks ago, after owning my 2.8 for 5 years, I finally got around to adjusting the max fuel screw. This was after having my EGT gauge in for maybe a year or so, and recovering from a head fracture that lead to turbo troubles. That's all behind me now. Once those were sorted, I began tinkering/experimenting using the online guides for boosting performance from the Bosch injection pump. You know the one. I made multiple incremental adjustments to the pre-loader star wheel and rotating the boost diaphragm, all with unsatisfactory results. My 2.8 still didn't like going over 65 on the highway; the engine would sound like a banshee, struggling to keep speed, and slowing to 50-55 on moderate grades. It was fine in traffic, but still seemed to be held back when accelerating from a stop. I was really disappointed with results so far.

So finally getting the courage and opportunity to finally pry off those anti-tamper sleeves on the max fuel screw 2 weekends ago, I added 1/4 clockwise turn to the max fuel screw and then did a 3 hour drive for Guard duty weekend. Wow, that was nice. A little better on moderate grades, although no "umphh" left to give for maintaining speeds or passing, but on the level the engine seemed to be relaxing a bit. Around town it was definitiely breathing better. No struggle anymore. Nice, but does it have more to give? Had to find out, so added another 1/4 turn (now I'm at a 1/2 turn from stock). I did this just before going to URE8 last weekend.

WOW. It was literally like adding another piston. On the ride up to Uwharrie from Charlotte, it felt effortless on the highway. If I wasn't watching my speed, I would find myself at 75. EGT's were only up 50-100F from previous (and I had plenty of room to play), which put me around 1050F at 70-75mph. I could now maintain about 65mph up moderate grades, and if I wanted it could actually accelerate some (watching EGT's of course). And all of this with a 1.4 Tcase, and no overheating. This engine is now what I have always wanted it to be. I'm really happy with it for the first time ever.

For any others with 2.8's considering this venture, I would say after you get your EGT, don't even bother messing with the preload star wheel. with a TGV turbo, there is no benefit it seems to me. All you can do is add turbo lag, and who needs that? Adding lag really sux when you are trying to make a right turn from a red light and time yourself into space in traffic from a stand still.

As for the boost diaphragm, I went from factory to full lean then adjusted all the way back to factory, and only reduced my economy, with little to know effect on performance. I would save this adjustment after the max fuel screw, to dial back economy if needed while observing performance tradeoff. I won't be experimenting with this now (post-max screw) as I'm so happy with my engine performance just as it is.

From what I've read on TDI improvement threads, my comments may be somewhat contradictory because the TGV is such a different turbo from the 300 TDI's turbo. I've had no smoke through any adjustments to that consideration just seems to go away. I would have to really turn that max screw up more before I started seeing smoke.

Hopefully others with 2.8's can use the results of my experimentation to gain more performance in a shorter period of time.
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  #2  
Old October 27th, 2011, 09:42 AM
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told ya.

On economy-adjusting the engine richer often results in better economy because with the factory settings you are revving so high or holding in lower gears longer, or holding your go pedal down further. Factory setting is often "too lean".This was also the case on my 130.

A couple of things you only get smoke when you go richer than the stock setting with the diapraghm-45 degree's is where most start. Changing the tension on the star wheel only works in conjunction with the diaphragm changes so if you tightened the star wheel and went full lean I'm sure your engine didn't respond favorably.

The max fuel screw you are happy with is only meant to effect things @ full throttle. That said it does make the turbo spool faster and make the engine way more fun going through the gears.
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  #3  
Old October 27th, 2011, 10:02 AM
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Yep, you were right. It was your comments that actually motivated me to make that adjustment. Full throttle performance on the highway was where it was really lacking.

Thanks again.
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  #4  
Old January 30th, 2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
I want to make sweet, sweet love to my max fueling screw, is that so wrong?

2 weeks ago, after owning my 2.8 for 5 years, I finally got around to adjusting the max fuel screw. This was after having my EGT gauge in for maybe a year or so, and recovering from a head fracture that lead to turbo troubles. That's all behind me now. Once those were sorted, I began tinkering/experimenting using the online guides for boosting performance from the Bosch injection pump. You know the one. I made multiple incremental adjustments to the pre-loader star wheel and rotating the boost diaphragm, all with unsatisfactory results. My 2.8 still didn't like going over 65 on the highway; the engine would sound like a banshee, struggling to keep speed, and slowing to 50-55 on moderate grades. It was fine in traffic, but still seemed to be held back when accelerating from a stop. I was really disappointed with results so far.

So finally getting the courage and opportunity to finally pry off those anti-tamper sleeves on the max fuel screw 2 weekends ago, I added 1/4 clockwise turn to the max fuel screw and then did a 3 hour drive for Guard duty weekend. Wow, that was nice. A little better on moderate grades, although no "umphh" left to give for maintaining speeds or passing, but on the level the engine seemed to be relaxing a bit. Around town it was definitiely breathing better. No struggle anymore. Nice, but does it have more to give? Had to find out, so added another 1/4 turn (now I'm at a 1/2 turn from stock). I did this just before going to URE8 last weekend.

WOW. It was literally like adding another piston. On the ride up to Uwharrie from Charlotte, it felt effortless on the highway. If I wasn't watching my speed, I would find myself at 75. EGT's were only up 50-100F from previous (and I had plenty of room to play), which put me around 1050F at 70-75mph. I could now maintain about 65mph up moderate grades, and if I wanted it could actually accelerate some (watching EGT's of course). And all of this with a 1.4 Tcase, and no overheating. This engine is now what I have always wanted it to be. I'm really happy with it for the first time ever.

For any others with 2.8's considering this venture, I would say after you get your EGT, don't even bother messing with the preload star wheel. with a TGV turbo, there is no benefit it seems to me. All you can do is add turbo lag, and who needs that? Adding lag really sux when you are trying to make a right turn from a red light and time yourself into space in traffic from a stand still.

As for the boost diaphragm, I went from factory to full lean then adjusted all the way back to factory, and only reduced my economy, with little to know effect on performance. I would save this adjustment after the max fuel screw, to dial back economy if needed while observing performance tradeoff. I won't be experimenting with this now (post-max screw) as I'm so happy with my engine performance just as it is.

From what I've read on TDI improvement threads, my comments may be somewhat contradictory because the TGV is such a different turbo from the 300 TDI's turbo. I've had no smoke through any adjustments to that consideration just seems to go away. I would have to really turn that max screw up more before I started seeing smoke.

Hopefully others with 2.8's can use the results of my experimentation to gain more performance in a shorter period of time.

THANKS!!!!
Pitty I read this three months after it was written but I will think about it and probably give that screw a try!
By the way I will by an EGT gauge before....Not that I am dissaponted with the 2.8 TGV (not at all) but I have nothing to loose so I will try.
How did ou get rid of the anti-tampering device?
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  #5  
Old January 30th, 2012, 08:35 PM
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mark kellgren
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the anti-tamper, despite all the drama about it in the different tweaking threads, actually came off for me with a couple prying twists of a flat head screwdriver. took about 30 seconds and found myself saying "that was it?"

Santiago, I can take a pic of where I tapped my exhaust manifold if you need it. you'll want to remove your turbo first before doing it, to make sure no shavings get down there, but I didn't have to weld a bung. the manifold wall is thick enough to tap.

don't mess with that screw until you get that egt gauge in!
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  #6  
Old January 30th, 2012, 09:39 PM
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On a 200tdi can the diaphragm or the star wheel be adjusted safely without upgrading the intercooler and adding an EGR temp gauge?
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  #7  
Old January 30th, 2012, 11:23 PM
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Tom, it can.. I tweaked my pump with reserve, and it gave me a bit more. I guess adding a big intercooler and an EGT would get me more power and more control (EGT). Just by rotating the diaphragm a bit it really did make a difference. Also, on another note, you can upgrade your air filter with a K&N one. It really does magic!
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Old January 30th, 2012, 11:39 PM
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Just get a gauge.. The damage is a lot higher than the gauge cost. You can get too hot.

http://stores.ebay.com/Auber-Instrum...=p4634.c0.m322
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  #9  
Old January 31st, 2012, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Just get a gauge.. The damage is a lot higher than the gauge cost. You can get too hot.

http://stores.ebay.com/Auber-Instrum...=p4634.c0.m322

Ditto.

It's so damned easy to overfuel a Tdi.

------ Follow up post added January 31st, 2012 06:19 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDNRover View Post
[snip]
Also, on another note, you can upgrade your air filter with a K&N one. It really does magic!
Really ?

Absolutely no difference between a Donaldson paper element and a K&N in my acceleration and hill climb tests on a 300Tdi.

Bum (butt) dyno's are pretty subjective and not very accurate, and FWIW if you really love your diesel I wouldn't use a K&N off road. Filtration efficiency isn't really good enough IMO.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-...s-finally.html
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  #10  
Old January 31st, 2012, 08:08 AM
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Well Rick, I'm no believer of magic parts that gives you a gain of 200hp! But it really felt different with the K&N filter. Might be the cheap britpart air filter I had before? But hey, it was a shock for me!
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  #11  
Old January 31st, 2012, 08:31 AM
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As if I don't have 100 other things to fix, this thread got me reading last night, and in my reading it seems that the
1st adjustment to make is the star wheel, and then if not happy with the change go on to the diaphragm adjustment.
Any thoughts on this.
The post where I read this:


Reasons not to do any of the things listed in this post:
1.) You are unsure of the state of tune of your engine and someone may have already altered the fueling, boost or both.
2.) You are unhappy with the reliability of your engine - none of the following will improve a failing engine and can make it fail very quickly
3.) Your exhaust puffs black sooty smoke at any stage of acceleration other than initial engine start up.
3.) You are not confident of your ability to perform any step detailed below.
4.) You are unsure what the word 'clockwise' means and you have a note from your Doctor excusing you from the use of sharp implements or tools due to an inability to tell your arse from your elbow

I'll make this next bit plain I will take no responsibility for any damage you cause to your engine through modifying it using the steps here!

Ok, now that's said on to the good stuff. If your 300Tdi still has the EGR system fitted and in use, I'd recommend blanking if off and seeing if you really need to adjust anything else - the perfomance gains are staggering for such a cheap and easy fix.

The 300tdi (and 200tdi) uses the same injection pump as the 12v Dodge Ram - the Bosch VE.

Both the 200 and 300tdi engines are intercooled, but the intercooler is a little on the inefficient side and not really suited to high power/high boost applications - changing it for a higher capacity one will give vastly better results if you decide to up the boost.

WARNING: Playing with either the fuel delivery or the boost pressure can (and in some circumstances will) destroy your engine!

200Tdi engines run between 0.74 BAR and 0.82BAR of boost pressure, 300Tdis run 1BAR of boost. 1BAR is plenty of boost to supply air for some mild tinkering with the fuel delivery - in fact the stock 200 does very well with no modification of boost pressure, if you do increase it do it carefull and use a boost gauge to check you're not overboosting it. Anything more than 1BAR of boost with a stock intercooler is a waste of time as the increased temperature of the induction charge pretty much negates the effect of the extra boost.

Adjusting the fueling isn't difficult - but you need to be very methodical and careful to avoid mishaps.

There are 3 basic adjustments:
LMP (Low Manifold Pressure)
FLD (Full Load Delivery)
AFC (Automatic Fuel Control)

LMP is useful for building boost more quickly from tickover - it will make the car smoke more and might mean it will fail a smoke test for the MOT
FLD will dramatically increase the available power throughout the rev range - and if done incorrectly will cause a lot of smoke and some very high exhaust gas temperatures (which stands a good chance of wrecking your engine - so take a LOT of care with this one)
AFC increases the fuel delivery in line with the boost pressure applied to the IP (Injection Pump) by the turbo.

For your purposes I would adjust the AFC a little and see how you find it - leave the rest of the adjustments alone for now.

WARNING: Before you adjust ANYTHING mark it's current postition so you can return to a known working good setup if things start happening that you don't like.

Read ALL of the following paragraphs before undoing anything.

To get to the AFC control you will need to remove the flat plate on top of the IP, held in place with 4 large slot headed screws. Attached to this plate is a hose which goes to the wastegate actuator pipe from the turbo to the wastegate. Underneath the plate is a diaphragm on an eccentric spindle - this spindle is the FLD adjustment - if it is rotated while you remove the plate or once the plate is removed you will alter the FLD rate. On some cars, particularly, but not limited to, those with turbo problems oil mist is carried down the pressure hose from the turbo and it collects above the diaphragm - this will cause the diaphragm to stick to the plate you're about to remove - be aware of this and stop if the plate it stuck to the diaphragm. If the plate can be easily removed, allow it to hang on the pressure hose. Carefully mark the position of the diaphragm relative to the injection pump - there should be a mark (usually a full stop sized punch mark) built into the metal plate in the middle of it which you can use as a marker, you will need to place a mark on the injection pump (a magic marker is fine) so you can return the diaphragm to it's original postion.

Once you're marked up - you can lift the diaphragm, spindle, plastic washer and spring out of the pump - its a tight fit and you don't want to damage this or your IP will be useless so go carefully and definitely don't lever it. On the excentric spindle you will be able to see a scratch mark where the fuel delivery pin has been acting on it - if the diaphragm was moved before you managed to mark it's position you can use this scratch to realign the spindle with the fuel delivery pin by shining a torch down the hole where the spindle sits.

Under the diaphragm is a notched 'wheel or knob' for want of a better description. This is the AFC adjuster - the spring under the diaphragm bears on this wheel, the higher up the wheel is in its chamber the more difficult it is for the diaphragm to bear down on the spring and move the spindle up and down agains the fuel delivery pin. Thus, tightening the wheel (turning it clockwise) makes it easier for the boost pressure to press the diaphragm and spindle down and the fuel delivery rate under boost goes up.

Mark the current position of the notched wheel and count the number of clicks clockwise that you turn it. You will need to adjust this by a small amount and test it after each adjustment. I would not recommend turning it more than 1/4 of a turn in either direction without testing it.

To test it is simple - bolt everything back together making certain the diaphragm is in it's 'standard' position - adjust one of your wing mirrors so you can see the exhaust smoke (if any) and take it for a drive. If there's no black smoke from the exhaust you can increase the fueling further if you need to - if it's smoking a lot you need to adjust the notched wheel back until it just stops smoking under full boost.


Provided you haven't gone mad and massively over adjusted the wheel in one go all should be well.

If adjusting the AFC doesn't give you the power increase you're lookin for, let me know and I'll put up some instructions for the the other IP tweaks.
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  #12  
Old January 31st, 2012, 09:11 AM
Santiago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
the anti-tamper, despite all the drama about it in the different tweaking threads, actually came off for me with a couple prying twists of a flat head screwdriver. took about 30 seconds and found myself saying "that was it?"

Santiago, I can take a pic of where I tapped my exhaust manifold if you need it. you'll want to remove your turbo first before doing it, to make sure no shavings get down there, but I didn't have to weld a bung. the manifold wall is thick enough to tap.

don't mess with that screw until you get that egt gauge in!

Overlander: yes please, I will appreciate that picture!
Thanks

------ Follow up post added January 31st, 2012 11:13 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Just get a gauge.. The damage is a lot higher than the gauge cost. You can get too hot.

http://stores.ebay.com/Auber-Instrum...=p4634.c0.m322
That is were I will buy!
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  #13  
Old January 31st, 2012, 09:15 AM
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VDO needle gauge EGT is good? I need an EGT to tweak further more and don't know where/what to buy nor to install it..
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  #14  
Old January 31st, 2012, 09:26 AM
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Hola Santiago! Come home whenever you come to Bahía and will show you what a good tweaking (and other goodies) does. With 1.2:1 TC and 34"´s on the wheels...

Abrazo,
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Old January 31st, 2012, 10:22 AM
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Hola Tocayo:
You have earned a reputation for being a "wild engine tweaker" (or whatever the word is) so I am afraid of even talking to you, maybe it is contagious!! Just kidding mate, jeje.
Thanks for the offer. I willl let you know when I go back home. Unfortunately I have only gone back to Bahía once in the last year and a half.
What about your gearbox and clutch, still up to the task?
Saludos
Stgo
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  #16  
Old January 31st, 2012, 12:31 PM
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This is begining to look like the .ar forum: lots of Santiagos! Cheers, tocayos!
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  #17  
Old January 31st, 2012, 12:33 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago Montenegr View Post
This is begining to look like the .ar forum: lots of Santiagos! Cheers, tocayos!
La invasión de los Santiago!

Saludos
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  #18  
Old January 31st, 2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaco1 View Post
As if I don't have 100 other things to fix, this thread got me reading last night, and in my reading it seems that the
1st adjustment to make is the star wheel, and then if not happy with the change go on to the diaphragm adjustment.
Any thoughts on this.
I can't speak for the 200/300TDI's, but for the 2.8, I started and spent quite a time tweaking the star wheel and diaphragm, to ver little effect. As the 2.8 has a constant boost pressure, no good comes from adjusting the preload (star wheel)! after increasing preload, and then sitting at intersections and then hitting the gas at a green light, and having to wait for the D to move due to boost delay, I realized that I'll never want to adjust that again. As for the diaphragm, very little gain in performance for the offsite in economy.

Based on all my tweaks now, the only thing the 2.8 needs from factory is more fuel screw across the entire range! I'm planning on adding 1/4 turn more, which I think would be perfect. I have turned 1/2 turn so far, so 3/4 turn in total I think will end up perfect. With just the 1/2 turn, I'm still rolling on the highway at 70mph at around 1k degF, and going up long inclines, hitting around 1500-2000k degF. Running around town, I'm still at 900 degF. I clearly have room to add a little more heat.
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  #19  
Old January 31st, 2012, 04:48 PM
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Mark do you have a larger intercooler in your 2.8?
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  #20  
Old January 31st, 2012, 05:03 PM
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I'm assuming so. When Pendy did the install, he had to swap the one that came with my 2.8 from M&D with another he had on hand, since the one from M&D didn't fit without mod. Not sure what normal looks like though.

Calling DR. Pendy!
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