Temperature Gague false reading trick? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 9th, 2005, 03:30 PM
arbik
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Temperature Gague false reading trick?

Hello All,

I found this on the East Coast Rovers website, under the D110 info.
Now, I know its for D110s, but mine behaives in the same way...
does anyone know anything about this?
Does this apply to the D90s too?

"The engine temperature gauge in your 110 is not telling you the truth. This is important because most Rover V8s will last a good long time, unless they develop coolant or overheating issues, so you need to know your coolant temperature. Behind the dash of every NAS Defender 110 is what is called a "signal conditioner" or "stabilizer." It is Land Rover part #AMR2401. What this little bundle of computer parts wrapped in electrical tape does is alter the signal coming from the temperature sender in the engine before it reaches the coolant gauge on the dash. Basically it tricks the signal to read lower on the gauge you see. We have done tests with this device in place (that all NAS 110s have unless we have removed it) where we have purposely overheated the engine (Don't worry the engine was coming out anyway). During these test with the engine coolant temperature well over 220 degrees (well above normal and into the damage zone) the dash mounted gauge would still read normal. Even at over 250 degrees (death for a Rover V8) the dash gauge still reads normal. In fact under no conditions could we get the coolant temperature gauge to go above the half way mark (Normal). The "stabilizer" prevents you from seeing your engines true engine temperature. In our customer's 110s we remove this device so that they can see the true engine temperatures.

http://www.eastcoastrover.com/110oillines.html

Just wondering if the reason for my temperature gague always being in the middle, is this little gadget.

-arbi
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  #2  
Old May 9th, 2005, 03:38 PM
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I haven't pulled my dash apart to look for that gizmo, but I have noticed my temp go above the mid-point a few times. The temp spikes a bit as the thermostat opens. But other than that, it goes to the middle and stays there rock solid.

I did compare the wiring diagrams for a NAS D-90 and D-110, and the wiring diagram for the 110 shows the conditioner, but the 90 diagram does not.My Defender # is 272, so it's among the earliest NAS trucks.

-Hans
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  #3  
Old May 9th, 2005, 03:48 PM
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Tony Fannin
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I installed some new offroad lights on my ARB this past week. Normally my temp would never stray above the exact middle. This past weekend after some longer distance freeway driving I noticed it drifted to the right about 1-2 degrees from vertical. The lights are blocking just enough air to make the needle bump up a bit but nothing major and it didn't keep rising so I don't worry about it.
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  #4  
Old May 9th, 2005, 04:19 PM
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I belive this to be only on 110's
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  #5  
Old May 9th, 2005, 05:42 PM
arbik
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oh ok.
Just wanted to make sure..we didnt have the same "gizzmo" to worry about.
Thanks for the info guys.

-arbi
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  #6  
Old May 9th, 2005, 07:08 PM
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Peter Sherman
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If it would help anyone I have a picture of the offending part & its local.
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  #7  
Old May 9th, 2005, 07:10 PM
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That would be cool to see
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  #8  
Old May 9th, 2005, 07:27 PM
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I would like to see it as I plan to remove it soon. Due to a severe distraction, I left my 110 running in the drive for, say, 40 minutes. It was clearly hot as I had coolant pouring from the overflow and there was plenty of heat radiating from the engine bay. The stock temp guauge was spot on the "normal" location where it always reads once warmed up.
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Old May 9th, 2005, 08:02 PM
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Somebody, somewhere, had a picture of the damned thing on a website. IIRC it's a small thing, wrapped up with the gauge wiring in the dash. I'll see if I can find it.

-Hans
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  #10  
Old May 24th, 2005, 12:23 PM
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Here are pic's nafter I untaped & rewired. The rewire is easy but one wire is short.
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  #11  
Old May 24th, 2005, 01:02 PM
artm
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Since the behavior of the D90 gauge is identical it wouldn't surprise me if it is conditioned. Certainly it is not the sender and the gauge is a regular VDO so there must be something in between.

Same for my Tdi - never goes past midpoint.

I would think this is prime turf for a lawsuit.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Since the behavior of the D90 gauge is identical it wouldn't surprise me if it is conditioned. Certainly it is not the sender and the gauge is a regular VDO so there must be something in between.

Same for my Tdi - never goes past midpoint.

I would think this is prime turf for a lawsuit.
After last weekend's overheating issues I can say for sure that mine doesn't have one. My fan clutch went out and the temp would slowly creep up if I wasn't a cruising speed getting air across the radiator. I'm also pretty confident that the P.O. would not have removed such a thing as the vehicle was basically bone-stock when I bought it. I looked for this mystery conditioner and found nothing while I was wiring up some new offroad lights last week too.
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  #13  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 11:07 AM
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How do I remove the signal conditioner?

I have attached the circuit diagram for the coolant temp gauge circuit.
How do I remove the signal conditoner or wire around it?
I am having trouble following Bowtracer's photos.

Thanks
T.J.
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  #14  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 11:13 AM
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wt2 unplug the wires
its wrapped up with tape behind the tach
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  #15  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 11:32 AM
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Singal Conditioner:

It is ONLY on NAS 110s. It is not on any NAS D90

It limits the singal so that you never see how hot the engine really is.

You can't just remove it (I need to update the site in that regard) that will give you false hot readings.
You need to either replace the gauge/ sender set up with a VDO or other, or replace both the guage and sender with the pieces from a 1994 D90. I'll find those part #s. The parts books are wrong on the part #s to make it work.

It is behind the NAS 110 dash just behind the tach, floating loose wrapped in electrical tape.

Green wire powers the gauge, green and blue is to the sender. The signal condition is just looped in. Remove it, but as stated, one wire is very short. make a jumper to make it easier.
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Old August 2nd, 2006, 12:38 PM
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It is my understanding that on the 94 and newer trucks the false normal spot is conditioned inside the gauge itself. So a higher then normal reading is actually 210-220 or higher. I have some experience with this trying to tame the tempurature on some past diesel conversions. I have run both a VDO aftermarket with numbered reading alongside a factory vdo with dual sensors and witnessed this. I should take one apart and we can all disect it together.

JP
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  #17  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
It is my understanding that on the 94 and newer trucks the false normal spot is conditioned inside the gauge itself. So a higher then normal reading is actually 210-220 or higher. I have some experience with this trying to tame the tempurature on some past diesel conversions. I have run both a VDO aftermarket with numbered reading alongside a factory vdo with dual sensors and witnessed this. I should take one apart and we can all disect it together.

JP

The issue we found with Tdi set ups D90 is that you have to run the black temp sender. Most 300 tdi engines come through with a green sender and it is the wrong value for the NAS temp gauge.
Parts books (Euro ones) show the same part # gauge as an NAS 90 has mated to the balck sender. Once we installed that set up there have been no temp gauge issues. Run one in my own 90 and checked it in all conditions (Moab in the summer to Maine in the winter) with an infra-red tester and it was spot on.

Follow-up Post:

OK, I just gutted an 1994-1995 NAS D90 temp gauge. nothing odd inside, no signal conditioner, just normal gauge guts, same as an NAS110 guage I just gutted.

300 Tdi in an 1993-1995 NAS Defender. use a AMR3321 black sending unit mated to a AMR2631 gauge. Exact same set up as a Euro D90/110. Checked this against factory Tdi cars we service (the illegal type).

NAS 110s come with a AMR2070 gauge
1994-1995 NAS D90s come with a AMR2631 gauge

To cure (with factory parts) an NAS 110 temp gauge issue use the PRC7918 "white" sender that most NAS 110 have in them and mate that to a AMR2631 gauge and remove the signal conditioner.
Did this a few years ago on some 110s and put them through the ringer including up to 120 degrees at idle in our paint bake booth and the gauge told the truth as per manual checks with an infra-red hand held.

Hope that helps.
Man is to hot here!!
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  #18  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 02:47 PM
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Thanks Mike! Thats great info...............
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  #19  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 05:52 PM
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If I replace with a VDO set up, which sender should I use? There are a few temp gauges with different OHM ranges available.
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  #20  
Old August 2nd, 2006, 06:16 PM
artm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
It is my understanding that on the 94 and newer trucks the false normal spot is conditioned inside the gauge itself. So a higher then normal reading is actually 210-220 or higher.

The middle setting in a stock 97 gauge can be at 220. and this is considered normal - assuming so since the middle setting is where the gauge normally is. So, you consider 210 hgher than normal?
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