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  #21  
Old February 12th, 2006, 12:26 PM
fustogrande
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brian girasoli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNY
I'm having a tough time understanding how someone who restored a Series "from the ground up" doesn't know that the frame is, was, and always has been steel?
I know the frame is steel, KevinNY. I'm talking about the body.
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  #22  
Old February 12th, 2006, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fustogrande

I will say I didn't know Defenders get rusty - my old Series had two (!) frames on it, one boxed around the other and both were rusty as shit - because they don't use aluminum anymore?
-brian
Well, this is what you said.

Whatever, get one if you want one. No one in a D-90 ever drove by a jeep and said" I wish I had one of those!" Every jeeper secretly lusts for a Defender.
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  #23  
Old February 12th, 2006, 03:10 PM
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this is most certainly true
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  #24  
Old February 12th, 2006, 03:22 PM
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Jim Cheney
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I'm actually pretty ecology minded, and the Defender appeals to me since it is not a "throwaway" vehicle. I built mine for extreme longevity and with the diesel engine the mileage is very tolerable, combined with the fact that I run biodiesel when its available it helps me feel less like a "consumer." I'll concede that emissions arent ULEV standards, but I cant have everything.

The Defender is also a great vehicle to park on the street since people can door it and back into it at their own peril. I'm always pretty satisfied when I see chunks of other people's paint in my running boards instead of dents in my doors. I've got some scuffs on my brushguard from some ass who backed into me and left the scene, but the chunks of his vehicle he left on the ground let me know that he suffered far worse than me.
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  #25  
Old February 12th, 2006, 05:25 PM
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Stephen Whitaker
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Having been around Land Rovers most of my life, I can echo what others have said and add if you want a pratical, economical every-day driver, then the Defender is NOT the vehicle for you. If, on the other hand, you wish to cater to your less-civilized side that will put with the peculiarities and expenses of Land Rovers because they are unique and are themselves characters, then go ahead and enjoy owning one; you won't regret it.

If you do take the plunge and get one, then after a while you change your mind, there are many who will gladly take it off your hands and pay you just about what you paid for it in the first place (assuming you take care of it). You cannot say that about many other 4x4s.
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  #26  
Old February 12th, 2006, 05:52 PM
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Jeep folks are trying more and more to be like us.... just look at Jeep catalogs these days.

No joke, I can find diamond plate fender protectors, roof racks and limb risers in them now. I'm just waiting for the hood-mounted spare tires and sand rails.

-Hans
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  #27  
Old February 12th, 2006, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fustogrande
I guess if there's any problem in stopping me getting one, it would be that I have virtually no place to work on it. I live in a downtown (Mystic, if any of you are from Connecticut/Rhode Island) and have to park on the street - no garage. -brian

Been there done that buddy. Shit....I used to live downtown PDX (close to it anyway) and always pissed off the nieghbors taking a space in the lot, of which there were only 6, to work on the D90. I changed oil, my starter, alternator, radiator, and plenty-o-wires while living there. You just nee to take the plunge......head first.


DJ
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  #28  
Old February 14th, 2006, 04:12 PM
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Just do it, I commute miles every day. Two runs across Europe, the Moroccan Sahara (twice) the only thing that went wrong was a dodgy GKN overdrive that I bought at an auto-jumble and I had that changed out and back to standard gears in an hour or so (and I'm really sorry about the oilslick I caused while fixing it)
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  #29  
Old February 22nd, 2006, 08:17 PM
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Trevor K
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Not to get off-topic, bc i feel it's sorta on topic, but do D90's get stolen alot?

I'd think they'd be a tough vehicle to "wash" of their history so that would make them a little less desireable... except to people who have one thats been wrecked...

Have their been any high profile thefts on the board?

i'm in the early stages of denial that i want one, and don't want to buy a car with a target painted on it...
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  #30  
Old February 22nd, 2006, 10:01 PM
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Sean Hanagan
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Do IT! Do IT!
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  #31  
Old February 22nd, 2006, 10:10 PM
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Scott
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I dont believe so. I heard it rationalized once a long time ago - there are not enough of them out on the streets to cause a huge demand for parts via a chopshop. How many toyota camrys do you see? Honda accords? Lots. Lots means lots of folks needing parts at some point. How many defenders do you see here? Hardly any - thus no demand for said parts. Besides, you have people bringing them in from overseas for parts. And if you drove off in a stolen honda, who'd know??? If you drove off in a stolen D90 I dont think you would get too far - too unusual, attracts a lot of attention etc. etc. etc.
I say the theft risk is relatively very low.
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  #32  
Old February 22nd, 2006, 10:40 PM
Andrew Vick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkavan01
Not to get off-topic, bc i feel it's sorta on topic, but do D90's get stolen alot?

I'd think they'd be a tough vehicle to "wash" of their history so that would make them a little less desireable... except to people who have one thats been wrecked...

Have their been any high profile thefts on the board?

i'm in the early stages of denial that i want one, and don't want to buy a car with a target painted on it...
I wouldn't think so, but I live in a bit different area. I leave my keys in mine, and running half the time, as it would probably be located within about 30 minutes of being stolen.





There is only one way out
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  #33  
Old February 24th, 2006, 09:20 PM
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Trevor K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Vick
I wouldn't think so, but I live in a bit different area. I leave my keys in mine, and running half the time, as it would probably be located within about 30 minutes of being stolen.





There is only one way out
not that i live in a bad area, but i don't think i'd leave my car idling on the curb...
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  #34  
Old February 25th, 2006, 09:10 AM
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John Robison
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Well, Brian, I am fairly close to you and I have had Land Rovers since they returned to North America.

When someone asks me why they should buy a D90 I usually respond that they should not. Because if you want a D90 you should not be comparing other trucks in your mind. You might ask "could I afford one" or something like that but not "should I get a D90 or a Wrangler?" You should just know.

Everyone knows that a D90 is what a Wrangler wants to be when it grows up.

As to their suitability to commute to work . . . I live in Amherst and commute 30 miles to Land Rover Service in Springfield. My D90 is fine riding through the country but I would not want to be commuting in city traffic with the manual steering and gearbox.

Mine is a soft top, and not very secure. So I don't take it places where predators might loot it. But I have other cars so that's not a problem.

If you like British cars an ideal set might be a D90, a late model Range Rover, a Bentley Turbo, and a Jaguar convertible. Maybe a Mini too.

D90s are special purpose vehicles, and used for that purpose they are a lot of fun.
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  #35  
Old February 25th, 2006, 10:32 AM
Eric Siepmann
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Eric W. Siepmann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robisonservice

Everyone knows that a D90 is what a Wrangler wants to be when it grows up.
Actually it's the other way around.

Can we call Currie and get a 9" axle sent to us preset with the locker of choice?

Do we have plentiful choices for lift and suspension kits?

Are there kits to drop a crate Hemi in our truck? SBC? How about the Atlas 2? Reasonably priced Low kits for our t-cases?


Point is that even in the Uk the amount of aftermarket for the 90 is almost non-exsistent.

I have wheeled with enough Jeeps to have a healthy respect for them. Least they're not talking about putting IF/RS on the wrangler.

God forbid the parts are plentiful and cheap as compared to the raping we get for parts from just about anyone save RDS!


Should you buy one? If you like it buy it. Take off the skirt and get ready to open your purse. It's a used truck. Nothing more nothing less. Same potential problems and issues as with any other used vehicle. Use the search function and do your homework...
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  #36  
Old February 26th, 2006, 10:06 AM
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Randy Black
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"It's a use truck. Nothing more nothing less"?

My wheels don't fall off if I break an axle, I have much better visibility over the hood, larger cargo area than a TJ, wheel wells are much more able to accept larger tires for an equal amount of lift, frame is much stiffer, and then there's that part about resale value. Look at the ujoints etc on a stock Jeep compared to a stock D. Do they still use those little u shaped straps to hold the ujoint together? Check some of this stuff out for yourself, it's been a while since I took a close look at a Jeep and could be inaccurate. Stock and modified Jeeps are a dime a dozen. If you pay a fair price for a D and take care of it you can't loose if you need to sell it.

But it's true there is less one-stop shopping for parts and accessories and they will cost more than Jeep.

If I couldn't drive a Rover for offroad travel I would look at Toyota but not a Jeep. My only Jeep purchase was in the late 80's and I'm still sour on them.
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  #37  
Old February 27th, 2006, 10:41 AM
Eric Siepmann
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Eric W. Siepmann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snuffer
"It's a use truck. Nothing more nothing less"?

My wheels don't fall off if I break an axle, I have much better visibility over the hood, larger cargo area than a TJ, wheel wells are much more able to accept larger tires for an equal amount of lift, frame is much stiffer, and then there's that part about resale value. Look at the ujoints etc on a stock Jeep compared to a stock D. Do they still use those little u shaped straps to hold the ujoint together? Check some of this stuff out for yourself, it's been a while since I took a close look at a Jeep and could be inaccurate. Stock and modified Jeeps are a dime a dozen. If you pay a fair price for a D and take care of it you can't loose if you need to sell it.

But it's true there is less one-stop shopping for parts and accessories and they will cost more than Jeep.

If I couldn't drive a Rover for offroad travel I would look at Toyota but not a Jeep. My only Jeep purchase was in the late 80's and I'm still sour on them.

I have. I owned a CJ thru TJ. Frame isn't stiffer than a Jeep. They boxed the Jeep. U-joints? Replace the stock no big deal. Hell, throw custom 60's under it and be done for good. The wheel well is dependent on which tire you run and the specific lift kit. You have to fab heim joints for a 90 yet the aftermarket for the jeep you have almost 5 different companies making them in a kit.

Resale is only based on the limited importation of the D-90. That's it.

You missed the entire point. Jeep is just as capable as a 90 and when your shopping around you can much more truck from buying a used jeep than a 90. You can modify it cheaper and address all the short-comings that the jeep has compared to the 90 and still have cash left over. It's a SWB vehicle. You want load carrying buy a longer wheelbase. Applies to both...

EwS
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  #38  
Old February 27th, 2006, 01:16 PM
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Scott T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Siepmann
It's a SWB vehicle. You want load carrying buy a longer wheelbase. Applies to both...

EwS
Did I miss something? I'm assuming the load carrying verses wheelbase is in response to the comment that a Defender has more load space (not to mention capactity) verses a Wrangler. I don't think Wheelbase plays a signifigant role here though, since the Defender actually has a shorter wheelbase than the Wrangler does (92.9" verses the Wrangler's 93.4").
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  #39  
Old February 27th, 2006, 01:39 PM
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Stephen Whitaker
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I'm afraid I disagree with Eric on a couple of points, but I believe he is correct that a good Jeep can go anywhere that a Land Rover can - - just not as often. Jeeps in general do not hold up as well as Land Rovers when in repeated use. Whereas my Jeep-owning friends went on the same trails with me out in the southwestern US (generally higher altitudes, steeper, rockier, and sandier than trails in the east and certainly than in the midwest), after a few outings things on the Jeeps began to break, bend, and twist due to the fact much of their structure is not as rugged as the Land Rovers, including the frame; and they were commonly not as easy to work on out in the field and Land Rovers. Crawl underneath the two and compare how the frame is reinforced, the gauge of the driveline and suspension, and how well protected the vitals are. There is a reason that when new Land Rovers cost more than Jeeps - and it is not all due to import tariffs.

The Land Rover is NOT a cheap car to own. As Eric points out, parts are more expensive and there are not as many options when compared to Jeeps. It is important to note, however, that a Land Rover does not need to be modified as much as a Jeep to be truly offroad capable. If all you do is go mudding, drive through snow and slush, and do moderate offroading, you might not want to spend the extra dollars to buy a Land Rover since a Jeep is right at home in those environments.

A Land Rover's resale value is high not only because there are so few in the US, but also because it is a more desirable vehicle to a select few people who understand for what it was designed and of what it is capable. People buy them because they feel they are worth the money.

If up-front costs are your primary concern and you are not planning on doing much repeated offroading, go along with Eric's points and think seriously about the benefits of owning a Jeep. If you are a bit more independent-thinking and relish a bit more adventure and can stand a bit more frustration to enjoy that adventure, then think more seriously about a Land Rover and welcome to the club.
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  #40  
Old February 27th, 2006, 02:21 PM
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Bill Lewis
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I think most of the stuff is opion. I sold my 98 TJ (6 months ago) to buy a D90 because it is the truck I have always wanted. It does have more room that my TJ ever had or at least seems that way. It has been more $$ to upkeep and add the bling I wanted, but again it is something I chose to do.

My TJ was very capable but I have broken a few things on it off-roading that looking at the D I dont think I would have. Every time my buddy and I work on my D and we crawl underneath, we are both impressed at the construction of the suspension compared my TJ. The "sturdiness" is just not there on the TJ. I like my D because the road handling both on and off-road puts my TJ to shame. I just feel more in control with the 90.

Jeep obviously see's the shortcomings. The Rubicon was expressly produced with the things you do to a jeep after you buy one, better axles, lockers, larger standard tires. No lift though. I guess its like buying a Harley and having the exhaust done. Those things are just things you do when you buy it.

Aside, my jeep was tremendously easy to work on, and find parts for. There was no fear in tearing into it, because if you were missing something chances are the local parts store has it. With the 90, you hope you got everything you need if you are doing a big project, otherwise you could be down for a few days.

To me, there is almost no comparison. The LR is just a better machine, although there are a few things I wish they had done standard.
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