TDI coolant leak scooby doo mystery - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old December 31st, 2010, 05:19 PM
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TDI coolant leak scooby doo mystery

So after months of losing coolant (weekly refill of the coolant reservoir) and thanks to the help of florescent die, I have finally sourced the location of the mystery leak. It's external (hurrah) but it has also stumped me. the leak is running down the right hand side of my 2.8 block (same as 300tdi), with the highest point of origination deep in the casting well where the #1 injector is. There's florescent coolant leaking out slowly around that point (just power washed engine and fresh coolant on short drive back).

What would cause coolant to source from there?

BTW, there's no visible coolant in my engine oil.
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  #2  
Old December 31st, 2010, 06:43 PM
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Cracked head?
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  #3  
Old December 31st, 2010, 07:38 PM
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can't speak to the 2.8 but 300's have a gasket called the "P" gasket thats on the front of the engine and is famous for leaking....mine is.
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  #4  
Old December 31st, 2010, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
can't speak to the 2.8 but 300's have a gasket called the "P" gasket thats on the front of the engine and is famous for leaking....mine is.
where exactly is that gasket? have a part no? 2.8 is almost identical to the 300tdi.
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Old December 31st, 2010, 07:59 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LAND-ROVER-DIS...item23088b9277

This one is a metal improved gasket
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Ran...item3a4c57f02d


A write up on replacement with pictures:
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=7547
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Old December 31st, 2010, 08:28 PM
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thanks for the research Doug, I appeciate it. I don't however think that is it, as my problem is on the RHS, and my pump, like the 300 is on the LHS, where i have no visible leaks at all. I'll post a picture tomorrow. I may have to pull the valve cover and #1 injector out to have a better look there.

PS. Just looked up the water pump gasket in the 2.8 parts manual, and the part no shows the old fibre 300 tdi water pump gasket (ERR2378), so good to know abou the replacment improved version.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 05:03 PM
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ok, so today I reexamined the leak area while the engine was still warm and running, and I conclusively confirmed the leak source. It's not the injector, but rather a very small leak originating from the front head bolt just below cap, which is located just below the #1 fuel injector. So it sounds like a small leak (dripping rate) developed on the head gasket around the bolt hole.

So with that, given that there is no evidence of combustion loss, coolant in oil, or coolant in exhaust, I'm thinking this repair is as simple as pulling offending head bolt, adding generous sealant on the threads, reinstall and torque to spec.

Anyone concur or disagree? Anything else I should check?
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  #8  
Old January 5th, 2011, 05:48 PM
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It's when something seems "that simple", that I get worried
Hopefully, your diagnosis is correct. Other ( and less simple) possibilities are a head gasket leaking, cracked head, or block.
Hope it's just the bolt.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 06:34 PM
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Any time you have any liquid in a head bolt hole its a problem. You have to be very carefull to get all liquid out of the hole in the block otherwise re-tightening the headbolt can crack the block with hydrolic pressure.

Sounds like your head gasket has gone South. Don't know for certain but pretty sure your engine uses 1 time use stretch head bolts. Would also point out that you aren't suposed to remove a single bolt
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Old January 5th, 2011, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
Any time you have any liquid in a head bolt hole its a problem. You have to be very carefull to get all liquid out of the hole in the block otherwise re-tightening the headbolt can crack the block with hydrolic pressure.

Sounds like your head gasket has gone South. Don't know for certain but pretty sure your engine uses 1 time use stretch head bolts. Would also point out that you aren't suposed to remove a single bolt
good feedback. So I need to make sure engine is cold, pull bolt, completely clean out and dry bolt hole, seal bolt threads liberally, then retorque. would you recommend I remove valve cover and loosen all bolts, then retorque in proper sequence?

given no other symptoms, I'll work on getting a new gasket set from M&D and if this stops the leak (again, very small seepage), then I'll pull the head in the summer when I have a good bit of time.
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Old January 6th, 2011, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
good feedback. So I need to make sure engine is cold, pull bolt, completely clean out and dry bolt hole, seal bolt threads liberally, then retorque. would you recommend I remove valve cover and loosen all bolts, then retorque in proper sequence?

given no other symptoms, I'll work on getting a new gasket set from M&D and if this stops the leak (again, very small seepage), then I'll pull the head in the summer when I have a good bit of time.
Consider that you may not be able to stop the leak with the sealant - and you might cause other leaks by loosening the head bolts. So if the leak is so small you could continue to keep an eye on the coolant level and condition, then do the job properly as planned in the summer. When you get to it, check if the head bolts are the single use type, get the head magnafluxed to make sure its crack free (or not), check the head face for warping - and refit with a nice new head gasket!
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  #12  
Old January 6th, 2011, 08:43 AM
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Per Martyn at M&D engineering, the 2.8 bolts, which are not the same as a 300 tdi's, can be used a max of 3 times, so I'm good. I'm just going to do the one bolt, and do the head gasket this summer when I have more time and the weather is more conducive. I don't have a 9' garage door, so it's an outside job for me.

At some point, I need to start a new 2.8 thread and share everything I have learned about it. Not much available at all on the web.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 02:40 PM
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UPDATE: So based on several recommendations, I ended up pulling the suspect head bolt, and low and behold, the bolt hole and bolt was completely dry. I sealed it anyway and reinstalled, then drove a bit, getting up to normal temps. Got back later and rechecked, still leaking again! Examined closer, and it turns out it wasn't the head bolt at all, but still coming from the the dark corners of the fuel injector. With the engine running while I was looking, and contorting myself to look into that space with a flashlight, I could see the leak actually now originating from the bolt that secures the clamp for the injector. A quick removal of the bolt and bracket confirmed my suspicions. The well was completely full of coolant, and the bolt was covered in coolant throughout the threads. Finally, something conclusive. I put thread sealer on the bolt and reinstalled.

So far, no more coolant leaks or drop in coolant levels. I can't believe that was a mystery for so long...

I know the 2.8 has some improvements in the coolant capability from the 300 TDI. It appears that at least for the #1 cylinder, that bolts goes into the water jacket. I'll be confirming my assumption with M&D, but doesn't look like I need a head gasket at all at this point.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 04:02 PM
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Old January 12th, 2011, 05:19 PM
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I find that interesting. Will be putting those bolts on with sealer from this point on.
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Old January 13th, 2011, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
UPDATE: So based on several recommendations, I ended up pulling the suspect head bolt, and low and behold, the bolt hole and bolt was completely dry. I sealed it anyway and reinstalled, then drove a bit, getting up to normal temps. Got back later and rechecked, still leaking again! Examined closer, and it turns out it wasn't the head bolt at all, but still coming from the the dark corners of the fuel injector. With the engine running while I was looking, and contorting myself to look into that space with a flashlight, I could see the leak actually now originating from the bolt that secures the clamp for the injector. A quick removal of the bolt and bracket confirmed my suspicions. The well was completely full of coolant, and the bolt was covered in coolant throughout the threads. Finally, something conclusive. I put thread sealer on the bolt and reinstalled.

So far, no more coolant leaks or drop in coolant levels. I can't believe that was a mystery for so long...

I know the 2.8 has some improvements in the coolant capability from the 300 TDI. It appears that at least for the #1 cylinder, that bolts goes into the water jacket. I'll be confirming my assumption with M&D, but doesn't look like I need a head gasket at all at this point.
Hey Mark, Think you can pop a quick pic up? Need to make sure I understand exactly where you are talking about. You figure out that Turbo fail reason yet? Didn't you get your EGT put somewhere near #1?
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  #17  
Old January 14th, 2011, 09:25 AM
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Here is a pic of the bolt hole, with bolt and injector clamp removed. Hole is full of coolant, although you can't tell in pic.

I rechecked coolant level last night and it did drop a bit in the reserve tank, but still no leaks. Now that the system is sealed, it's probably starting to purge air pockets. I only get hot enough to open thermostat maybe once a day, so it will take a bit.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 09:44 AM
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only thing with using any thing but the recommended bolt lube (if the book calls for any) is it will change the ultimate clamping force. more slippery will result in a higher clamping force and something like thread sealer being less slick ( i would think) would result in less clamping force..... Using different products on some bolts should result in a uneven clamping force on that aluminum head...... Just my .02....
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Old January 14th, 2011, 10:49 AM
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only thing with using any thing but the recommended bolt lube (if the book calls for any) is it will change the ultimate clamping force. more slippery will result in a higher clamping force and something like thread sealer being less slick ( i would think) would result in less clamping force..... Using different products on some bolts should result in a uneven clamping force on that aluminum head...... Just my .02....
Thanks for input. really didn't need RTV on that head bolt I reinstalled. 2.8 manual defines torque value for those bolts as 60nm +130 deg, so that's got some wiggle room in there.
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Old January 14th, 2011, 01:42 PM
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Thanks for input. really didn't need RTV on that head bolt I reinstalled. 2.8 manual defines torque value for those bolts as 60nm +130 deg, so that's got some wiggle room in there.
Maybe I am missunderstanding, but just to make sure:

There is no wiggle room on the head bolt torque. The torque spec is 60nm OR +130 degrees (on the protractor torque scale). These are torque bolts that can be twisted to +130 degrees to get the specified torque - or, more simply tightened with a torque wrench set at 60nm.

The +130 is not a tolerance on the 60nm torque. that inpretation could allow 3 times the specified torque, risking stripped block threads and head damage.

My appologies if I missunderstood!

Owen
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