TD5 versus 2.8L PS - Defender Source
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Old April 15th, 2005, 04:46 PM
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Jason Herring
94 D90 ST #1253
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Pedro, CA, USA
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TD5 versus 2.8L PS

I was wondering if there is an in-depth comparison somewhere of these two? I'd like to know what the differences are, considering a project to install one in a D90 V8 NAS. Now, forget about the price for the moment

From what I understand, the 2.8 edges out the TD5 on power in stock trim, but what about all the aftermarket tuning availble for the TD5? It seems that the engine really has alot more life with an aftermarket computer tweak.

Can the 2.8 PS be tweaked as well? It's a mechanical pump like the 300tdi, so the tuning would have to happen with a screwdriver and not a laptop? Forgive me, I don't know much about the fuel delivery system in a diesel aside from the fact it's direct injected at very high PSI.

Most of the stuff I've seen are propaganda pieces by people selling the 2.8.

Here is a spec side-by-side comparison, but how raw numbers translate unto the pavement could be quite different:

Also, I'd like to know how this 'feels' after replacing the V8... by the numbers, it's less powerful by ~25%.
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Old April 15th, 2005, 09:00 PM
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Nicholas Orros
1995 NAS D90 SW
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tallahassee, FL U.S.A.
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Great Freakin Queston!


Great question... I'm not a full fledged mechanic but I've heard that the 2.8 TGV Powerstroke is the way to go because it's the last diesel (more or less) that doesn't require all of the computers & electrical stuff like the TD5 does. The 3.0 TGV that's coming out is going to have all the computers & electrical crap that the TD5 does, and others.

Second.... Let's rip this sucker wide open. I know there's a bunch of guys on here who have either done the conversion or had someone do it who know a LOT more than me !

just my 2 bits.


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Old April 15th, 2005, 09:34 PM
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J. Landers
1983 110 LHD Galvanized Everything
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Location: Beaumont, TX USA
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I second that great question comment. I am in the middle of trying to decide b/t the two myself. On the one hand I totally dig the no computer route and then on the other....

From what I have read you can get over 185 BHP/309 lbs/ft oou of the TD5. And having actually owned one I can tell you it runs like a top. I did no do any mods to it and it would pull like crazy in 5th gear going up a hill and that was in a 110. I do know you can get quit a bit out of a 2.8 (I have owned one of these too, just never had it installed) with a little screw driving and an up rated intercooler. But I don't know how much. Stock is like 135bhp/277 lbs/ft and from what I have seen you can get about 20% more with an intercooler and fuel adjustment. That puts the numbers 162bhp/332 lbs/ft for the 2.8. As far as I am concerned either one produces wonderful numbers...way better than a stock v8.

I would be interested to see what everyone thinks. To tell you the truth I am a bit shy of the computer route. I like the idea of having all mechanical parts when I am out on the trail. But I got to tell you technology is great, that TD5 was nice.
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Old April 16th, 2005, 01:05 AM
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Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
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TD5 is drive by wire and some computer adjusted mechanisms. Both split hairs as far as I am concerned from a performance persepective. For me, I would take the 300 TDI or the 2.8, but I want simplicity of operation. Actually, the TD5 in Europe is going to be a very short term engine--of course time will tell.
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Old April 16th, 2005, 05:19 PM
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'94 D90 ST
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Where do you plan to get the computers to control/program the TD5? Its not like the land rover dealers stateside will have them as I'm sure they do in Europe.
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Old April 16th, 2005, 11:52 PM
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Hans Haase
The Lab Rat
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I wonder, will MegaSquirt run a diesel?

My oil line fix

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Old April 17th, 2005, 08:47 AM
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Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
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I think MS is exclusively for spark ignition engines per the documentation. I'm not trying to claim its not possible, but its not a feature of the MS. Additionally, the TD5 has a ridiculous number of sensors for various readings - things like fuel temperature etc.
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Old April 17th, 2005, 08:59 PM
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Jason Herring
94 D90 ST #1253
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I've seen the numbers for the tuned TD5 and they do look damned impressive.

I've done engine swaps into older cars before and had to bring along the computer and sensors, so I don't know how much fear I have of that. Mostly it's a bit of a hassle, but then you get the ability to precisely tune and monitor the engine. I like that, but it's not a major deciding factor for me. The wiring requires a good factory wiring manual for both donor and receiving vehicles and some patience.

Fuel temperature? Wow. That's one I haven't seen before. Getting all the sensors installed is just a hassle, but if the engine has more upside potential than the 2.8 I might lean that way.

Why is the TD5 going to be a short-term engine in Europe? TD6 replacing it?
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Old April 18th, 2005, 11:59 AM
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Richard Moore
2002 TD5 D-90 Hardtop
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Location: Warwickshire UK
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TD5 is being replaced by 4 cyl, 2.4 L Ford 'Puma' [from Transit Van!!] + 6 speed 'box from 2006 - this is to meet latest enviro regs + TD5 is Defender only, volumes are too small for Ford. - new Disco/LR3 uses either Jag V8 or new 2.7 TDV6 which is way too big for Defender engine bay .

My D90 is TD5 but if I could choose I would go for 4.6 V8 as fitted to previous RR and Disco 2. TDi is overstressed, PS 2.8 doesn't appeal.
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Old April 18th, 2005, 05:07 PM
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David Shechter
97' D90 SW 2.8L diesel
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the grass is always greener on the other side
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Old April 20th, 2005, 10:56 PM
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Stephen Cahill
D-90 Source Vendor
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Location: Dartmouth Nova Scotia Canada
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Hello all
I have been told that the 2.8 in stock form out pulls the TD5.This came from South Africa.As we know the TD5 is not supported in North America in any form at all.So to tune it up you need to have access to the software from a dealership that works with the engine.The 2.8 has been run at 180 HP YMMV!!! I do not endorse doing that to the engine.
You may break things that cost bucks to repair.
The NGD 3.0 will be suported in 2007 in the USA.I cannot ship them direct to the States till then.Engines will have to be shipped via Canada I will have the software to tune them.No I do not supply personal computers.
Beware the new engine is not cheap but is another 20 year life span engine.
Another thing to remember is that the torque of the new engine is so great that the complete powertrain should be beefed up.
I will be shipping the new engine somewhere between June and August 2005 to Canada.Can you say tire smoking engine.

Stephen Cahill
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Old April 20th, 2005, 11:45 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
97 SW
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Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 985
Jeez! You guys are never satisfied.

Just when there APPEARS to be a diesel engine with the performance of a V8 (or better) with no electronics you're asking about the TD5, TDV6, NGD, blah, blah, blah.

I say appears because I have not yet experienced a setup with the 2.8/ZF - my intended projec - to comment conclusively. When that experience does come and it proves correct then that's that for me.

Even with a 2.8/R380 and the performance that entails, who could ask for more? Correction, I'm sure there will always be someone who would but why?

V8 performance, diesel, good weight distribution, no electronics, no beefing up, easy installation - what more do you want???
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Old April 21st, 2005, 05:49 AM
Nuno Almeida

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In portugal the all terrain is different from other countries.
Over here we deal with lots of water, humidity, dificulties where you need lots of power in low gears and a fast aceletarion to pass the obstacles.

About the fears over the eletronics, i had them too, i had previously one SIII, one disco 300tdi and now i have a TD5.
Friends of mine tha had the fear, they lost it when they drove my TJ.
For me, it is a devil over 4 wheels, faster than a stock RR3.9 V8 in aceletarion, no problems with the acelerator because has you know there are products for everything (if you have money for them)... but then, who has a LR is not worried with some details

The TD5 can be upgrated to about 250hp maximum, but only for competition. My TJ has about 180hp and it runs like hell. With intercooler, air filter and a litle more of reprograming, the engennier that made the transformation could took it to 220hp, but he didnīt recomended the last part (reprogramming for more power) to me.

I have pictures of my TJ inside water (the front), been doing a lot of things with it and never had a problem (except 2 half shafts broken at same time)... for this power you need to change the diferentials (I have true trac in front and ARB on rear) and alf shafts (I have ashcroft).
I donīt talk about the 4.6 or even som 5l engines that some people mounted on their defenders because they use it only in competition because of the fuel that they burn.

Then its only fuel and have fun...
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