swivel pin housing - grease or oil or both? - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old August 26th, 2004, 09:27 AM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
swivel pin housing - grease or oil or both?

Hi all

It looks like the PO of my D90 replaced the swivel pin housing oil with grease, which I am told is a common solution to stop leaks. I actually have ordered some to keep as a trail spare.

My concern is how do you replenish it? I'm actually in favor of regular oil changes and perhaps even slight leaks so I know its in good shape versus wondering if the grease is clean or enough. Or is the grease truly going to stay clean and not get depleted?

Would it be safe to "flush" it with gear oil or is this not ok now that its got grease in it?

thanks
charles
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old August 26th, 2004, 09:48 AM
KeithD
Status: Offline
Keith Duckett
90 V8 Import
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posts: 141
Registry
My experience recently (as part of fitting new diff and axles) was that the swivels had previously been loaded with a red grease which was the wrong kind. Heaven knows how long they had been that way (vehicle is 20 years old this month - must make it oldest 90 in North America?). But to no harm. The red stuff was neither dirty nor depleted. Anyway repacked with Land Rover "green" grease. It's a silly price. I don't think there is any hard and fast rule abut which is better, oil or grease. Both are approved.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 26th, 2004, 10:11 AM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
Yep, I agree with Keith, if you go off road and get things dirty, put oil in them and change it (or like in my case just fill them once every couple months), or if it road only put the grease in them and don't worry about them. Now how to get the old grease out, I would say try flushing it with oil, fill with oil, then drive it for a bit and flush again, otherwise I would say you would have to take it apart to get it all out. I don't think you will do to much harm if any driving with both in there.
__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old August 26th, 2004, 10:14 AM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hippert
Now how to get the old grease out, I would say try flushing it with oil, fill with oil, then drive it for a bit and flush again, otherwise I would say you would have to take it apart to get it all out. I don't think you will do to much harm if any driving with both in there.
Cool. That's pretty much what I was thinking.

Thanks!
charles
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 27th, 2004, 08:15 AM
Terabyte
Status: Offline
Matteo Edoardo Molinari
Defender 90 Td5 M.Y. 2K2
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
Posts: 13
Hi.

I give you my personal opinion.
My 90 Td5 M.Y. 2002's swivel pin housings were originally fitted with the special Land-Rover grease. As I experienced some troubles with the bearings of the wheels, in occasions of the sobstitution of the bearings I made what I name the "Total oil conversion".

I removed the oil seal between wheel huh and axle; I removed all the grease from the swivel pin housings. Once all was remounted, i filled "the housings" with oil, obtaining an oil lubrification for the wheel bearings too. The same was made for the rear axle, too.

Pro: bearings are better lubricated and in this way I can eliminate evry dirty simply removing the old oil.

If you think it's a good idea I can post some links to photos that describe the modification. Something of similar has been developed by Outback Iport too, if I'm not wrong.

Ciao ;-D

P.S.: be patient with my English ;-D
__________________
Roverize the world ;-D
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 27th, 2004, 08:31 AM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
Matteo, I have heard of doing this before, the only thing that worried me was when your axle is not level the oil would all flow down to the low side, and you would not have any oil in the high side. I don't think this would hurt anything in a short run, but for longer periods I think it could do some damage.
__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 27th, 2004, 09:20 AM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
I would be interested in seeing the links.

thanks
charles
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 27th, 2004, 11:26 AM
Terabyte
Status: Offline
Matteo Edoardo Molinari
Defender 90 Td5 M.Y. 2K2
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hippert
Matteo, I have heard of doing this before, the only thing that worried me was when your axle is not level the oil would all flow down to the low side, and you would not have any oil in the high side. I don't think this would hurt anything in a short run, but for longer periods I think it could do some damage.
Well, this is obviously what's gonna happen when you drive in a lateral passage, but keep in mind that the oil ingresses the bearings due to the rotation of the wheel and the consequent centrifugal force. So the oil has a difficult way to came off from the upper wheel's bearings.

About the pics... here 'em ;-D

http://nembo90.altervista.org/RTC3537/100-0012_IMG.JPG
In this pic You see what happens to your weel bearings when water 'n mud make their entrance in the bearings hpousing and make a nice job with the help of grease, that becomes a powerful abrasive paste!

http://nembo90.altervista.org/RTC3537/P1000826.jpg
This is the key-element of the conversion. It's the oil seal that mounts back the wheel hub and has 2 inner profiles kept in place by 2 springs. The original oil seal, instead, is in PVC without profiles and springs so Mud 'n water may freely ingress. Where to find this oil seal? Read all the post and then check the final notes ;-D

http://nembo90.altervista.org/RTC3537/100-0013_IMG.JPG
Once you have removed the wheel hub, you can unscrew the 6 bolts that keep in place the cover of the swivel pin housing. Note the (liquid because hot) grease draining from the housing.

http://nembo90.altervista.org/RTC3537/100-0014_IMG.JPG
Now you can remove the cover and take a view of the swivel pin (http://nembo90.altervista.org/RTC3537/100-0015_IMG.JPG)

http://nembo90.altervista.org/RTC3537/100-0017_IMG.JPG
Here you can see the inner side of the cover: note the bearing and, behind it, the oil seal that you have to remove. The pic isn't very nice, but maybe you can notice the differende with this pic (http://nembo90.altervista.org/RTC3537/100-0018_IMG.JPG) where the oil seal has been removed.

The modification is made! Now you just have to re-put in place the cover and the wheel hub. Then fill with oil the swivel pin housing and enjoy the Series-Like bearings lubrification ;-D

Final notes.

On the European Defender Td5 (Turbodiesel) the wheel bearings are marked Timken. Exactly they have these Timken codes: NP-420308/449291 (I'm not shure that the V8 mounts the same bearings: check it out).

If you ask the official Land Rover supplier for these bearings, you'll find that they seem gold made, as they cost much! You can find them in some parallel accessorist, but... there's a cool aspect of the situation. If you ask the official Land Rover supplier for the RTC-3537 kit, you will buy for 30 Euros (almost 35$ if I'm not wrong) 2 bearings with the same Timken codes, plus an oil seal. But not a generic oil seal: it's the oil seal that you saw following the second link i posted in this message!

That's true! At a cost of 1/3 you get the wheel bearings and the oil seal! You also get some unused components that fits on Series Hub: don't mind at them, you don't neede 'em.

If you don't need to change wheel bearings (and I hope you don't have to change 'em) you can get only the Oil Seal, that's Land Rover Part Number RTC-3511. Check compatibility before to buy: remember I got a Td5 and not a V8.

;-D
__________________
Roverize the world ;-D
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 27th, 2004, 11:54 AM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
Nice write up! I had not thought of the centrifugal force, so when on the road you would be fine, and when moving slowly off road I doubt that your axle would not be level long enough to cause any damage.
__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 27th, 2004, 02:16 PM
Terabyte
Status: Offline
Matteo Edoardo Molinari
Defender 90 Td5 M.Y. 2K2
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hippert
...and when moving slowly off road I doubt that your axle would not be level long enough to cause any damage.
That's right. The amount of Oil that covers bearings is enought "stiky" to maintain an acceptable film-lubrification. Consider also that in those situations in which a wheel is up and the oppisite is down... are situations in which is better to go on sloooowly, so the friction and the revolutions of the bearings are very low, which is a nice thing to keep 'em lubrificated and relatively cooled ;-D
__________________
Roverize the world ;-D
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 27th, 2004, 03:08 PM
XD90's Avatar
XD90
Status: Offline
James Morgan
1986 Ex MOD XD90
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yorkshire England
Posts: 34
the best way ive found to clean the 1 shot swivel grease out is to strip down and wash with diesel mine had this in due to leaks ... and yes it does stop the leaks but if water gets in it all goes nasty and emulsified and instead of just draining and refilling with new you have to clean all the grease out when mine did this i stipped it all down cleaned it out as much as i could then filled the swivels with diesel and drove round the block drained and refilled with diesel a couple of times and that cleaned it all out then i went back to using Ep80/90 and find it much better than the grease

Land Rover have started using the 1 shot as standard in the new vehicals now due to a lot of waranty issues with poor selas on the TD5's as usual they found a cheap fix for a problem with crappy seals

anyway thats what i did to get the grease out of mine


James
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 27th, 2004, 03:28 PM
artm
Status: Offline
Arthur Maravelis
97 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 985
Wow, that is one long sentence!

Maybe it's time to get one of those new keyboards with punctuation keys?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old August 27th, 2004, 03:39 PM
XD90's Avatar
XD90
Status: Offline
James Morgan
1986 Ex MOD XD90
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yorkshire England
Posts: 34
oh sorry didnt realise my typing would cause problems for you mabey in future i should just keep myself to myself
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 27th, 2004, 04:18 PM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
Hmmm Art, your complaining about a missed period or 2 and you have never said anything about my spelling.



James, if you don't mind please continues sharing.



Any slight grammar mistakes are far easier to put up with on an informal forum then trying to figure out how to do something on your 90 for the first time when someone else already has a simple and easy way of doing it.



And if you really think thatís bad grammer then you should come over some time and check out some of the documents that I have to try and decipher at work.

__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 27th, 2004, 05:43 PM
JimC's Avatar
JimC
Status: Offline
Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 7,154
Registry
Hey, I need to strip down my hubs to inspect them - I bought a used axel and I need to make sure everything is OK.

Are any of the seals "one-use" i.e. they need to be replaced everytime the hub is opened up? Which seals should just be replaced in the interest of prudence?

I dont want to buy a big pile of seals and stuff that I might not need - anyone got advice?

Thx
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old August 28th, 2004, 12:23 AM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Thanks guys. I think I'll flush mine and give gear oil a shot again. Worst case I can go back to grease
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old August 28th, 2004, 01:10 AM
redrover

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Jim, you dont need to replace the inner seal for inspection. If you pull inner hub seal it is best to replace. But if you can remove it with no deformation, then it will most likely work again. i always replace the seal after repacking bearings. Also use a double lip seal. JP
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old August 28th, 2004, 02:46 AM
Terabyte
Status: Offline
Matteo Edoardo Molinari
Defender 90 Td5 M.Y. 2K2
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by XD90
oh sorry didnt realise my typing would cause problems for you mabey in future i should just keep myself to myself
XD90: I'm not gonna say it to show something, but I'm a moderator of a big Italian Land Rover Forum, so you can imagine how many similar situations I see everyday ;-D

I'm sure that artm was jokeing (or joking? excuse my italianized english...) so, in these situations I usually say: "Take a Beer guys, and go on with your Land-Spirit" ;-D

I appreciated very much your message XD90: english is not my first language, but I understood fully your procedure to clean swivel pins ;-D (even without punctation!)

So, please, go on and let our Land-Spirit spread all around ;-D So, why don't we return On-Topic and re-start speaking of grease, oil and swivel pins? ;-D As you can see grease-n-oil is an international code that joins together people with an ocean between 'em, so I suggest to listen to this international code that, as I said, we (in Europe) use to claim as Land-Spirit ;-D
__________________
Roverize the world ;-D
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old August 28th, 2004, 09:52 AM
artm
Status: Offline
Arthur Maravelis
97 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 985
Terabyte: Yes, of course, I was joking - that's what means.

Geez...if we must be always serious then here goes:

1. Use oil until your seals start leaking.
2. If you don't want to fix the seals then switch to LR grease.
3. If you wade at all only use oil.

There, that's all.

p.s. As long as we MUST remain serious what about "M.Y. 2K2"??? I guess 2002 is a bit much, right?

p.p.s. Notice the at the end of the last line.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old August 29th, 2004, 06:33 AM
Terabyte
Status: Offline
Matteo Edoardo Molinari
Defender 90 Td5 M.Y. 2K2
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
p.s. As long as we MUST remain serious what about "M.Y. 2K2"??? I guess 2002 is a bit much, right?
I noticed the smiling face in the end of the line, but I can't understand at all the sence of guess 2002 is a bit much, right? Isn't 2k2 the abbreviation for 2002? ;-D
__________________
Roverize the world ;-D
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for a RH Swivel Pin Housing D110DC Wanted 7 November 1st, 2009 10:42 PM
Grease or Heavy Duty oil in CV Housing TND90 Defender Technical Discussions 7 June 19th, 2008 04:14 PM
The Great Chicago Oil Slick.... Eric Siepmann Misc. Chit-Chat 30 October 28th, 2005 08:02 AM
Interesting swivel ball problem dameek Defender Technical Discussions 1 July 24th, 2005 01:18 AM
Oil Info XD90 Defender Technical Discussions 5 September 7th, 2004 10:07 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:32 AM.


Copyright