Swivel pin bearings & races - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old March 29th, 2011, 10:50 PM
Viton's Avatar
Viton
Status: Offline
Deaf Ember
Smart 4x4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: La
Posts: 1,231
Swivel pin bearings & races

Getting ready to replace mine so I went to my Official LR parts book to find the part numbers. The bearing and race must be sold as a set since the is only one part number listed, 606666. It is for all years 1994-1997, upper and lower. THE BOOK also shows the bearing to be the same on the 110's too.


I found a cross reference to Timken and found the bearing to be 11590 and the race 10520.

Dennis
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old March 29th, 2011, 11:30 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Weren't the 1997's ABS?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 29th, 2011, 11:35 PM
Viton's Avatar
Viton
Status: Offline
Deaf Ember
Smart 4x4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: La
Posts: 1,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
Weren't the 1997's ABS?
Not mine. Since I have an earlier VIN #, maybe the later models did.
Don't know I'd trust ABS going down a steep slope.

Dennis
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old March 29th, 2011, 11:44 PM
ipgregory's Avatar
ipgregory
Status: Offline
Ian Gregory
'97 D90 ST #1008
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Henderson, NV USA
Posts: 1,083
Registry
97s have the electrical wheel speed sensing part of the ABS system to provide the rough road signal to the GEMS ECU. They have the wheel sensors and the ABS ECU but nothing beyond that so no connections into the brakes.

The ABS ECU is under the Pass Seat.

Might have been taken out of yours when the Diesel went in Dennis.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 29th, 2011, 11:49 PM
Viton's Avatar
Viton
Status: Offline
Deaf Ember
Smart 4x4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: La
Posts: 1,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
Might have been taken out of yours when the Diesel went in Dennis.
Yep, I took it out when I did the conversion in 2001. Plugged the holes in the swivel pins with pennies and silicon sealant.

Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old March 30th, 2011, 05:15 AM
TS888's Avatar
TS888
Status: Offline
Tony Sims
1984 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: White Salmon, WA
Posts: 460
LR treats the bearing and race as a set, so only one P/N.
__________________
Quote:
[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old March 31st, 2011, 10:04 AM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
What I'm getting at is, the same bearing and race that fits on the lower side of the swivel ball will not fit the upper side on a 1997. The 1997 uses part number FTC2065 for the upper king pin.

The actual swivel balls are different between a 1995 and a 1997. They look the same, but they're different. The upper king pin hole is a different diameter; it's a about 4-thousands smaller. So, the race for part number 60666 will not fit.

FWIW, Will Tillery sells a nice kit to do these jobs. He includes a swivel ball reseal kit, one-shot grease, plus the bearings needed....at about 1/2 the price you see online.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old March 31st, 2011, 12:40 PM
Viton's Avatar
Viton
Status: Offline
Deaf Ember
Smart 4x4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: La
Posts: 1,231
Quote: " What I'm getting at is, the same bearing and race that fits on the lower side of the swivel ball will not fit the upper side on a 1997. The 1997 uses part number FTC2065 for the upper king pin. So, the race for part number 60666 will not fit. "

IF the upper bearing, 606666 does not use the accompanying race, what do the tapered bearings rest on?


The THRUST bearing you reference, (FTC2065) is a COMPONENT of the parts kit, STC226. The STC226 kit includes the bearing you reference, PLUS a thrust washer and the swivel pin itself.

Doesn't the upper swivel pin, still go inside the tapered roller bearing and race, LR part #606666? And doesn't the trust bearing and washer, more or less, act as a spacer?

The kit, STC226, according to AB, besides the 1997 D90, also fits; D1 1994-99 and RRC 1990-95.

Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 31st, 2011, 01:43 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
On 1994 and 1995 Defenders, they do not use the thrust bearing.

The 94 and 95 D-90's use a cup and cone upper and lower as pictured here on the Rover's North parts guide. But I do not believe that's the case on a 1997, and I know for a fact it's not the case on 1995+ RRC's and a D1's.

On later trucks, they use parts #29, 30 and 31 as pictured here, but do not use an upper cup and cone.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old March 31st, 2011, 03:02 PM
TS888's Avatar
TS888
Status: Offline
Tony Sims
1984 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: White Salmon, WA
Posts: 460
Cup? Saucer? Huh?

The MicroCat lists 606666 top and bottom for non-ABS Defenders through 2006. Earlier trucks (up to VIN 930455 per my RAVE) use the Railco bush, thrust washer, and a different pin. In simple terms, the parts books say trucks with rear drums use the Railco setup, trucks with 4 wheel discs use 606666.

If you have ABS the top uses a different pin and bearing, sold as a set under P/N TAR100050. Disco I's and RRC's with ABS use a different swivel pin kit P/N STC226. It would not surprise me if this kit was also used on earlier Defenders with ABS; it's the one with the hole in the swivel pin.

RN's parts diagrams are a dismal source of information, not for the least reason being that they don't use LR part numbers. Use this link for the MicroCat or this one for the older parts books
__________________
Quote:
[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old March 31st, 2011, 04:20 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
Cup? Saucer? Huh?
A cup is the race, and a cone is the bearing.

Quote:
Tapered roller bearings consist of four interdependent components: the cone, or inner ring; the cup, or outer ring; the tapered rollers, or rolling elements; and the cage, or roller retainer. The taper angles allow the bearing to handle a combination of radial and thrust loads. The steeper the cup angle, the greater the ability of the tapered roller bearing to handle thrust loads.
http://www.timken.com/en-us/products...s/default.aspx

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
The MicroCat lists 606666 top and bottom for non-ABS Defenders through 2006. Earlier trucks (up to VIN 930455 per my RAVE) use the Railco bush, thrust washer, and a different pin. In simple terms, the parts books say trucks with rear drums use the Railco setup, trucks with 4 wheel discs use 606666.
I think you better get a new book. Trucks with disc brakes will use either 606666 or FTC2065. The rear brakes have nothing to do with it. The difference is the actual knuckle (or swivel ball).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
If you have ABS the top uses a different pin and bearing, sold as a set under P/N TAR100050. Disco I's and RRC's with ABS use a different swivel pin kit P/N STC226. It would not surprise me if this kit was also used on earlier Defenders with ABS; it's the one with the hole in the swivel pin.
I have no idea what this TAR100050 part number/parts kit is. I looked it up online and I found this. That is NOT the king pin/swivel pin a D-90 uses. This is an actual picture of a king pin.swivel pin from a non-ABS D-90:

P/N STC226 is correct for, at least, 1995+ RRC's and D1's, and I'm 99.9% sure for 1997 D-90 (NAS).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
RN's parts diagrams are a dismal source of information, not for the least reason being that they don't use LR part numbers. Use this link for the MicroCat or this one for the older parts books
I like Rovers North's parts diagrams. Easy to use, page loads fast, etc.. That's not to same other sources are better, but I don't seem to have a problem with RN's site. I just find what I need and order it from Tillery and it's here next-day.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old March 31st, 2011, 04:49 PM
TS888's Avatar
TS888
Status: Offline
Tony Sims
1984 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: White Salmon, WA
Posts: 460
The "cup, saucer" thing was an attempt at humor. I know what a bearing and race are.

The point about the rear brakes is that is an easy reference for the changeover point from Railco to tapered bearing. Per the parts books, the change to rear discs and the change to a taper bearing on the top swivel were simultaneous. Of course reality is the old parts and new parts probably arrived at assembly on alternate days for 3 weeks and so there are drum brake trucks with tapered bearings and disc brake trucks with Railcos. And if you have an early truck that was imported from the UK, who knows what axles you have. The flippin' road salting here can eat a diff cover or rust off the spring mounts in a couple years, so axle swaps are common.

The TAR100050 kit is for newer Defenders, i.e. newer than you commonly see in the US, unless you count those 1983 Pumas that keep popping up. I should have skipped mentioning it.
__________________
Quote:
[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old March 31st, 2011, 08:44 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
The point about the rear brakes is that is an easy reference for the changeover point from Railco to tapered bearing. Per the parts books, the change to rear discs and the change to a taper bearing on the top swivel were simultaneous. Of course reality is the old parts and new parts probably arrived at assembly on alternate days for 3 weeks and so there are drum brake trucks with tapered bearings and disc brake trucks with Railcos. And if you have an early truck that was imported from the UK, who knows what axles you have. The flippin' road salting here can eat a diff cover or rust off the spring mounts in a couple years, so axle swaps are common.
I don't think this has anything to do with NAS trucks. There were never any drum braked NAS Defender 90's.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old March 31st, 2011, 09:43 PM
Antichrist's Avatar
Antichrist
Status: Offline
Tom Rowe
Defender/Disco/Series/MoD
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
There were never any drum braked NAS Defender 90's.
Ha ha, not according to Rockauto. LOL
But yeah, there weren't any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Getting ready to replace mine so I went to my Official LR parts book to find the part numbers. The bearing and race must be sold as a set since the is only one part number listed, 606666. It is for all years 1994-1997, upper and lower. THE BOOK also shows the bearing to be the same on the 110's too.


I found a cross reference to Timken and found the bearing to be 11590 and the race 10520.
Is there a question in there somewhere?
__________________
Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
in places even more inaccessible.

62 88 Regular
67 109 6cyl NADA x2
74 Lightweight - The Antichrist
95 DI 5-speed
95 D90 5-speed
97 D1 Automatic
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old March 31st, 2011, 10:04 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antichrist View Post
Ha ha, not according to Rockauto. LOL
But yeah, there weren't any.
Were the 1993 110's drum or disc brakes?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old April 1st, 2011, 02:35 AM
TS888's Avatar
TS888
Status: Offline
Tony Sims
1984 110
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: White Salmon, WA
Posts: 460
They were drum in the UK, discs came in 1994 with the introduction of the 300TDi. I have no idea if 1993 NAS trucks had rear discs, but it would not surprise me. Land Rover often differs specs by market.
__________________
Quote:
[appropriated from Ren Ching] Most faults can usually be traced to the badge on the grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell
This is straight out of the Manual for Build Builders.
Tony
1984 110 "Smokey" (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old April 1st, 2011, 11:00 AM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
NAS 110s were rear drum

Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
They were drum in the UK, discs came in 1994 with the introduction of the 300TDi. I have no idea if 1993 NAS trucks had rear discs, but it would not surprise me. Land Rover often differs specs by market.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old April 1st, 2011, 11:51 AM
Antichrist's Avatar
Antichrist
Status: Offline
Tom Rowe
Defender/Disco/Series/MoD
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
NAS 110s were rear drum
Yeah, true, but I was talking about Rockauto insisting there were rear drum braked '95 NAS 3.9V8 D90's.
__________________
Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
in places even more inaccessible.

62 88 Regular
67 109 6cyl NADA x2
74 Lightweight - The Antichrist
95 DI 5-speed
95 D90 5-speed
97 D1 Automatic
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old March 31st, 2012, 01:35 AM
jefhuf's Avatar
jefhuf
Status: Offline
Jeff Huff
'94 D90 ST #655
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Haymarket, VA
Posts: 1,660
Registry
Reviving this thread and hoping someone can help shed some light on my swivel ball dilemma...for background, my truck is a '94 and to the best of my knowledge, the parts under the truck are the original pieces. My swivel balls are pretty badly pitted so I picked up a set of replacements from another member here on the forum. After receiving the replacements and removing a swivel ball from my truck, they are clearly not the same. I have new 606666 bearings/races to install but the race will not fit in one side of the "new to me" swivel balls...are the replacements ABS units?

In the photos, the replacement swivel ball is on the left and my original is on the right.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Swivel balls.jpg
Views:	794
Size:	71.5 KB
ID:	49692   Click image for larger version

Name:	Swivel balls - no races.jpg
Views:	306
Size:	78.9 KB
ID:	49693  

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old March 31st, 2012, 01:41 AM
jefhuf's Avatar
jefhuf
Status: Offline
Jeff Huff
'94 D90 ST #655
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Haymarket, VA
Posts: 1,660
Registry
Looking at the site linked earlier in this thread, it appears the replacement swivel balls are as described on page 494, while mine are the ones on page 495...

http://www.retroanaconda.com/landrov...s_p475-580.pdf
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
ac

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swivel Pin bearings and preload D90user Defender Technical Discussions 7 May 31st, 2015 04:18 PM
300 Tdi Egt Q?????? Buckon37s Defender Technical Discussions 37 July 11th, 2012 11:26 AM
94/95 - 97 Swivel pin Jase Defender Technical Discussions 1 March 29th, 2011 10:42 PM
Swivel pin shims KevinNY Defender Technical Discussions 23 July 17th, 2007 06:31 PM
swivel pin housing - grease or oil or both? cgalpin Defender Technical Discussions 27 March 9th, 2007 09:16 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:57 PM.


Copyright