swapping 1.4 to 1.2 tcase in my 110 - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old September 1st, 2013, 12:51 PM
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swapping 1.4 to 1.2 tcase in my 110

After long wait, it's game day. old tcase out in 2.5 hours. Swapping in rebuilt RRC 1.22 ratio. According to all the experts I've talked to, I should love this paired with my 2.8. I'll post any lessons learned and experience here.


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  #2  
Old September 1st, 2013, 03:48 PM
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I have a 1.2 in my 110 (with a tuned Td5) goes well. cruises nicely.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 03:50 PM
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Care to sell the 1.4?
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  #4  
Old September 1st, 2013, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ontheway View Post
Care to sell the 1.4?
sorry. doing a swap with crown14.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 05:44 PM
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I'd love to hear about this. I'm considering doing this with my 300 tdi 110.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
I'd love to hear about this. I'm considering doing this with my 300 tdi 110.
Got 1.2 gear set from Ashcroft that i dont have plans for any more. The set has never been used.

Clay
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
Got 1.2 gear set from Ashcroft that i dont have plans for any more. The set has never been used.

Clay
I've got a couple spare 1.2's, so I'm all set if I decide to do the swap.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 11:33 AM
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nicely done Mark.

From what you've said about the 2.8, you should be extremely happy with the swap. I can omnly comment from my perspective with a 300TDI/R380/1.22, but by most measures, my 300TDi has far less grunt than yours and I absolutely love the 1.2 on the highway and as a daily driver. Now that the tires are sorted and the death-wobble cured, it cruises easily at 70-75mph. I'm seeing an average return of 24-25mpg.

It struggles a little in soft sand while loaded and in 4-High, but only barely, so I bet your 2.8 will be a great match with that extra torque.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 07:19 PM
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so pics to follow, but the first test drive, which was done without the transmission hump, was not as awesome as I had set myself up for. The rpm's are definitely lower, and I am going to need to adjust my driving style a bit, which is fine. I can stay in lower gears longer, which is nice. My test run on the highway was a challenge for me to get to 70. This was not only because of traffic, but also because past 60 mph, the EGT started to rise about 100F higher than with the 1.4, even though the RPM's are comparatively lower (by about 200-300 rpm). That was a completely unexpected side effect. I can also definitely feel a bit less "wind in the sail" with the 1.2 in highway responsiveness.

I know that I need to do my timing, which could potentially help a bit. I got the dial gauge that Doug recommended and intended to get that precise setting done this weekend, but after doing my wife's D2's valve cover and valley pan gasket, along with the tcase swap, I was wore out and out of time. (not even time for a cigar this weekend. that sux).

I also have my fueling up 1 turn, so I'm going to crank that down a half, which will help bring the EGT's under control and bump economy.

I am trading the "sportier" response I had, and hoping that the payback I get will be in noiselevel and economy, which would be my goal. 20mpg, that's still my target. I was getting 15 mpg before the swap, and the best I ever got was 17 mpg before I ever F'd with the IP.

I am confident I am going to ultimately be happier with the 1.2 than the 1.4, but it's not going to be a turnkey reward. In 2 weeks I'll have to refuel and then drive 2.5 hours each way for guard drill, which will give me my first indicators of changes to city and hwy mpg, as well as highway performance. I'll be turning that fuel screw down this week though.

I have pics of the install I'll be posting here shortly
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 07:31 PM
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Why is your mileage so low at 15-17mpg? Is that normal for the 2.8?
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Why is your mileage so low at 15-17mpg? Is that normal for the 2.8?

in a 110, 17-18 mpg is what your going to get from a brand new 2.8. I suspect that I'm at 15 due to the need to get an accurate IP timing set, and my fueling turned up too high.

Back in 2006 when I was considering the 300 tdi vs 2.8 for my conversion, there was no reference to what I should have expected in mpg from anywhere on the internet that I could find. I made assumptions based on 300 TDI economy figures reported on in this forum. Anyone considering the increased power, constant boost pressure and design improvements of the 2.8 need to definitely consider the economy tradeoff.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 07:57 PM
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That is quite the swing, I'm generally getting a pretty consistent 24-26 on my end. Are you using any treatment like XPD Optilube? That bumped my economy about 5-8%, may help even a little bit with your 2.8 setup.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 08:02 PM
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Good to know. I'm going to adjust my fueling first, and then set a good IP time to get back to baseline. Last time I did my IP timing was my first time doing it and with a drill bit. I'm sure my timing is off at this point.
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
in a 110, 17-18 mpg is what your going to get from a brand new 2.8. I suspect that I'm at 15 due to the need to get an accurate IP timing set, and my fueling turned up too high.

Back in 2006 when I was considering the 300 tdi vs 2.8 for my conversion, there was no reference to what I should have expected in mpg from anywhere on the internet that I could find. I made assumptions based on 300 TDI economy figures reported on in this forum. Anyone considering the increased power, constant boost pressure and design improvements of the 2.8 need to definitely consider the economy tradeoff.
I'd trade economy for the extra boost and torque of your motor. My 300 is definitely more anemic on the highway compared to my old 200TDi w/1:4 but you get used to it. I mean I can still pass people going 70 and get get up to 80, but it takes timing and adjustment of driving style.

Also, I am using a deisel additive but not every tankful.
My fuel return is measured with an iPhone app "car minder" which I have been using since I got this truck almost 2 years ago, so its pretty accurate. Economy does decrease in winter months about 2-3 mpg because I let it warm up a lot.
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Old September 3rd, 2013, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
I am trading the "sportier" response I had, and hoping that the payback I get will be in noiselevel and economy, which would be my goal.


Yes, that's one way of putting it... the "sportier" response does go, instead you have a slightly more lethargic drive. Although my Td5 (110)pulls up through the gears pretty rapidly.

My 90 (also a td5) with standard 1.4:1 box, and 255's, is positively a GT in shifting through the gears, but runs out of puff at about 75
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Old September 4th, 2013, 10:11 PM
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ok, so near disaster today. After a day of driving around, I leave work to pick up my kids, and leaving the parking lot at a slow speed, I can feel a progressive binding that caused me to panic. Felt alot like the binding that occurred when my CV blew, but even going straight and not in the front end. I though either the t-case blew up internally, or my rear diff pinion might have broken teeth. Just trying to pull over in the parking lot, it would bind up in a jumpy manner, then break free for a moment, then bind up again. Thinking maybe the ebrake had binded, I jumped underneath in my work clothes and released the ebrake shoes completely. No change.

I had to park it and get a rental. Later I came back to meet the tow truck so I could get it back home and isolate the problem. While waiting, I went underneath with a flashlight, and didn't see anything damaged, or feel any play in the driveshafts. Got in, started up, and put tcase in neutral and let it roll back. Only a foot then it binded again. I shifted to the locked side forceably and tried to go forward, there was a bit of bind then a pop, then it went forward with no resistance. Went through all positions between high, low, lock and unlocked, and was able to drive around the parking lot without issue. I concluded/assumed that in the swap, I needed to re-adjust the tcase linkage, and that one of the linkages must not have been fully engagine the tcase lever, and the binding must have been from an incomplete engagement. Having no other symptoms, I canceled the tow and went home in my rental. Plan is to return rental, drive home tomorrow and then adjust linkages this weekend.

Based on others experience, does this seem plausable for what caused my binding? I'm concerned that I might have broken some teeth on something, although I didn't push it once it started binding. The only thing I disassembled was removing the input gear for installation.

Odd's are someone has experienced this. Thoughts anyone?
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  #17  
Old September 4th, 2013, 10:44 PM
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I've experienced that with blown up diffs, but not often. That would be quite the coincidence. I don't see how the linkage not being properly adjusted would cause that. I'd check the fluid in the diffs and t-case and see if you can see any metal.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 10:45 PM
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Sounds like the diff was locked.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 10:46 PM
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Could difflock be on?
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  #20  
Old September 5th, 2013, 09:50 AM
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When this occured, my difflock light was not on, and my gear was in 4H. That is why I'm suspecting that if my tcase was in lock, that incorrectly adjusted linkage may not have pulled it all the way out..but that's just a theory. Has anyone experienced the binding symptoms before that can describe them? I haven't since I'm religous about not being locked on pavement.

I have also read that using the incorrect length bolt (as in too long) on the front-bottom of the tcase where it mounts to mainbox can keep the tcase locked. does anyone know the thread size of the tcase mounting bolts? I read the correct length for that particular one needs to be 1.25" long. thinking about hitting home depot and getting the correct bolt, and pulling that one when I get home to rule it in or out. Rather just throw in on one hand, then pull them all to find the short one.
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