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  #1  
Old August 25th, 2014, 01:52 PM
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Swap Theory

Ok I for one think a thread where engine swap ideas could throw out and discussed has become a necessity? So we don't hijack ongoing build threads and hopefully spawn a couple more.

First off, are we pretty much in agreement that the GM LS engine is top of the pile these days? I hope so at this point, but there are still some who seem confused. Personally I would take it one step further and say that the most suited to a Defender would be the 4.8: economy is better than 6.0 or 5.3 versions, plenty of power but not overkill, as in not enough to require additional drivetrain modifications, should be cheaper to purchase as not as in demand from the hot rodders, but still just as tuneable if that's your thing.

Recently a guy posted a RRC on here with an Olds Rocket 350 swap... cool points for thinking outside of the box, and that is a great low end torque engine, well suited for offroad. I actually would have built an identical truck several years back if it weren't for the sheer weight of the engine. Even the small block Olds weighs in about the same as a big block Chevy.

I can't understand the recent mentions of the BMW 6 cyl swaps. It reminds me of when people were swapping GM Vortec V6 Chevy Blazer engines into Rovers a few years back. All the work of a engine conversion and none of the benefits. In fact the BMW 6cyl petrol car engines are so ill suited for truck use that the Vortec V6 might be a better swap. I could almost see it making sense in a Series, after all a series has diffs already geared 4.7, but I think its too long to fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
The M54, while cool, does not offer any power increase over a Rover V8 and actually has quite a bit less torque (by about 30%) than a cammed/chipped 4.6
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  #2  
Old August 25th, 2014, 02:03 PM
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I'm in agreement with you on the LS front. Although I'm not so sure about the 4.8. Kind of along the same lines as the BMW 6cyl conversion. If you're going to go through all the work of putting in an LS, why stop at a 4.8? The 5.3 is a great engine and there are millions of them out there.

It's also worth noting that a lot of people will sell the Rover V8 short with no real evidence to back it up. With the right parts and knowledge, you could have a 300hp/350tq Rover V8 for a lot less headache than any engine swap.
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  #3  
Old August 25th, 2014, 02:15 PM
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Adam can you please explain about the 300hp rover v8? Every swap thread recently seems to start with " i couldn't justify spending X amount of dollars" to drop in a higher hp rover motor…
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  #4  
Old August 25th, 2014, 02:18 PM
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Olds never technically made a small block V8. Smaller displacement engines used a slightly lower deck while the biggies used the taller block to accomodate the long stroke crank. That made the engines slightly wider too by about 1.5". I ran a GM 4.3 V6 (200hp/250lbft) in my '71 IIA 88" for 12 years first using a SM420 then a NV4500. It went everywhere I pointed it with solid reliability until I spun a bearing in an assinine debacle at Mountain Lake. That vehicle is now fitted with a LS1 but has been sitting while other priorities take my time. My '84 110 will receive a '96 LT1 V8 since I already have that engine on hand. In older times, Robert Davis and I worked on 2.5 and 3.0 4 cyl GM swaps. Robert still has customers requesting those engine conversions. Nothing is wrong with the Rover engine in general and it is a direct bolt in. The cost to produce serious power is high. For what it's worth I'm rebuilding a 3.9/4.0 for my daughter's '90 RRC as I type.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 02:21 PM
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Hi. I am really interested in this thread too, as I will be rebuilding or replacing a 3.9 in a NAS90 shortly.
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  #6  
Old August 25th, 2014, 02:35 PM
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it all depends on how much $ you want to spend


$1-2500 for a sbc swap

$2-5000 for a ls swap

$4-6000 for a built solid rover engine




personally for me its DR OLDS MONSTER OR NOTHIN!

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  #7  
Old August 25th, 2014, 03:04 PM
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I like Dr. Olds monster motors as well. But personal opinion, not suited for the Rover. Too big and too heavy. I'm not typically a Ford person. But has anyone tried a Ford v8?
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  #8  
Old August 25th, 2014, 03:25 PM
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Get a olds diesel n convert to gas....boat loads of hp and bullet proof bottom end
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  #9  
Old August 25th, 2014, 03:28 PM
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imho its all about options. i personally want an auto trans, and having as many engines as possible is good for different reasons (availability, weight, volume, economy, etc)
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  #10  
Old August 25th, 2014, 03:38 PM
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Dunno. If I had an open wallet I'd try to get a Donovan in one.
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  #11  
Old August 25th, 2014, 03:45 PM
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Personally, I always liked the Jag 4.4, as used in the LR3/RRS. If you could take all the gizmos off, it would be a great Defender engine.
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  #12  
Old August 25th, 2014, 03:58 PM
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in my opinion the best diesel motor to put into a defender would be a CAT 3204 with a good tune
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  #13  
Old August 25th, 2014, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
I'm in agreement with you on the LS front. Although I'm not so sure about the 4.8. Kind of along the same lines as the BMW 6cyl conversion. If you're going to go through all the work of putting in an LS, why stop at a 4.8? The 5.3 is a great engine and there are millions of them out there.

It's also worth noting that a lot of people will sell the Rover V8 short with no real evidence to back it up. With the right parts and knowledge, you could have a 300hp/350tq Rover V8 for a lot less headache than any engine swap.
A $250 tune on a 4.8 and it'll outrun a 5.3L.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezzzzzzz View Post
Olds never technically made a small block V8. Smaller displacement engines used a slightly lower deck while the biggies used the taller block to accomodate the long stroke crank. That made the engines slightly wider too by about 1.5". I ran a GM 4.3 V6 (200hp/250lbft) in my '71 IIA 88" for 12 years first using a SM420 then a NV4500. It went everywhere I pointed it with solid reliability until I spun a bearing in an assinine debacle at Mountain Lake. That vehicle is now fitted with a LS1 but has been sitting while other priorities take my time. My '84 110 will receive a '96 LT1 V8 since I already have that engine on hand. In older times, Robert Davis and I worked on 2.5 and 3.0 4 cyl GM swaps. Robert still has customers requesting those engine conversions. Nothing is wrong with the Rover engine in general and it is a direct bolt in. The cost to produce serious power is high. For what it's worth I'm rebuilding a 3.9/4.0 for my daughter's '90 RRC as I type.
Olds definitely made both small and big block Rocket engines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubs View Post
Get a olds diesel n convert to gas....boat loads of hp and bullet proof bottom end
Without dropping major coin NO olds bottom end can be labelled "bullet proof" but I get what you're saying. The big deal with the Dx SBO (yes all diesel olds are SMALL block olds) is you can bore it out tremendously compared to the regular 350/403 smallblocks. You have to do some other fun shit like grind off the injection pump mount etc.

Anyway they are all too heavy for a Rover anyhow. Then again, people put Cummins in Rovers so...
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  #14  
Old August 25th, 2014, 04:29 PM
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This om606 thing has my interest:
http://www.northwestdieseloffroad.com/index.html

Here in a LC:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/the-...-om606.767948/

And here is a long thread about the om606
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?sh...c=83111&page=1

It might be the last of the mechanical diesels, should return approx 180HP/400ft#s and is readily available stateside.

the om617 might be cheaper but the DOHC om606 seems like a more modern powerplant. Amazed there aren't a lot of documented defender transplants...
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  #15  
Old August 25th, 2014, 09:42 PM
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https://m.facebook.com/2702318697807...0858029051457/

Awesome 606 in a series truck
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  #16  
Old August 25th, 2014, 09:53 PM
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4.8/5.3 hands down. If its a diesel Id say a Td5.

300 HP Rover V8 yeah okay.
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  #17  
Old August 25th, 2014, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14 View Post
A $250 tune on a 4.8 and it'll outrun a 5.3L. Olds definitely made both small and big block Rocket engines. Without dropping major coin NO olds bottom end can be labelled "bullet proof" but I get what you're saying. The big deal with the Dx SBO (yes all diesel olds are SMALL block olds) is you can bore it out tremendously compared to the regular 350/403 smallblocks. You have to do some other fun shit like grind off the injection pump mount etc. Anyway they are all too heavy for a Rover anyhow. Then again, people put Cummins in Rovers so...
I saw that comment as well regarding 350 and 455 being the same block. Mr. 350 RR mentioned 350 big block in another thread.
The 350 was definitely distinct from the big block and if I'm not mistaken was four inches narrower than the 400/425/455.
You can go .125 overbore on certain big blocks with engine castings F0, F00 (which had 5% nickel content), and F1.
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  #18  
Old August 26th, 2014, 09:01 AM
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I know this thread is about swaps but I dont understand the dismissal of the properly built Rover V8.

Do you all understand that the last generation 4.6 was 220hp/300tq with a terrible camshaft, 9.6:1 compression, horrible small valve heads, and an incredibly economic tune?

There are significant gains to be had in each of those categories. It just depends which heartache you want to sign yourself up for. Spending more money on building a drop in motor while keeping the originality of the vehicle, or spending more time (and money) on converting the vehicle to a larger displacement engine.

I laugh at the "$3000" LS swap mentioned above. It's possible, but you would be putting it together with junk parts. To do any of these options right... from building a better Rover V8 to swapping an LS to swapping a diesel... $6k is a more realistic starting point for any of them.

With regards to the 4.8/5.3 question... if a $250 tune will make a 4.8 outrun a 5.3, what will a $250 tune do to the 5.3?
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  #19  
Old August 26th, 2014, 09:16 AM
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No one is dismissing the rover v8 I think we all see an engine/transmission and we get excited. Even with all this merc diesel talk I'm still installing a LR diesel in my truck.

I think the rover v8 is an excellent power plant, the LS swap grew out of the need for an economical v8 swap stateside.

Agree 1000% with the 6K price tag for any swap
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  #20  
Old August 26th, 2014, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
I know this thread is about swaps but I dont understand the dismissal of the properly built Rover V8.

Do you all understand that the last generation 4.6 was 220hp/300tq with a terrible camshaft, 9.6:1 compression, horrible small valve heads, and an incredibly economic tune?

There are significant gains to be had in each of those categories. It just depends which heartache you want to sign yourself up for. Spending more money on building a drop in motor while keeping the originality of the vehicle, or spending more time (and money) on converting the vehicle to a larger displacement engine.

I laugh at the "$3000" LS swap mentioned above. It's possible, but you would be putting it together with junk parts. To do any of these options right... from building a better Rover V8 to swapping an LS to swapping a diesel... $6k is a more realistic starting point for any of them.

With regards to the 4.8/5.3 question... if a $250 tune will make a 4.8 outrun a 5.3, what will a $250 tune do to the 5.3?
I want to be clear, I am 100% supporter of original LR engines, and I couldn't agree more about the potential of the RV8... but discussing swaps is fun.

And that tune on the 5.3... now you'll be needing HD axle shafts, CVs, etc! Ok, maybe not, if you can resist the urge. I just think the 4.8 is ample, can be had for cheaper, and is a more... sensible? option.
Also I see a LOT of high mile 5.3 trucks which get bought at auction, the salvage yards subtract 100k or 200k from the mileage, then sell the engine.
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