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  #21  
Old August 26th, 2014, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crown14 View Post
now you'll be needing HD axle shafts, CVs, etc! Ok, maybe not, if you can resist the urge...
You'll need those with a standard Rover V8 anyways!

I appreciate your perspective on the cost of the 4.8 v 5.3, I have not investigated it deeply enough to understand what the real difference would be.

It looks like in my area the going rate for a "low mileage" complete LMG 5.3 is around $1500-2k
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  #22  
Old August 26th, 2014, 12:00 PM
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http://www.nationaltruckspares.com.a...es-.aspx?id=87

These are relatively easy to install and use V8 engine mounts and placement. Can be found on UK ebay and all over the Australian/Asian market. You can find the entire dump trucks/buses for cheap and import the whole shabang if you wanted. Adaptor plates for auto and manual V8 Rover boxes are available occasionally on the overseas ebays. 260 ft/lb @2,000 rpm. 135bhp @3,450.
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  #23  
Old August 26th, 2014, 12:55 PM
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What is the real cost of the GM trans to LT230 adapter?

I have read about it and seen the photos in the LS swap thread but I think it's important to understand the cost of that component.
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  #24  
Old August 26th, 2014, 01:26 PM
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For a good analysis, I think the below parameters should be discussed:

Truck Build - handling and power can be a big difference between a light 90 and a expo'd 110
Truck Weight - 90's could be built sub 4,000 lbs while 110's could be up to 6,000 lbs
Cost of conversion & engine - conversion kit could be a lot but motors cheap or vice versa.
Availability of Parts (and even engine) - say you break down on some trail, how fast can you get parts, what about if in CAN or Mexico?
Engine Weight - The Rover V8's are light, what will happen putting another few hundred lbs up front? And what if you add winch, lights, HD bumper?
HP - obvious but it's got to be balanced with build - 400HP sounds dope but not when axles are twisting like pretzels and you're white knuckle driving it going 75MPH into an off ramp.
TQ - see above
Engine Durability
Engine Drivability
Engine Upgrades
MPG - not to figure how to recoup conversion costs but mile range for say 15-20 gallon tank.


Land Rover 3.9 Baseline

Truck Build - NAS 90 - 33-35" tires, sliders, HD axles, bumper, winch, etc
Truck Weight - 4,700
Cost of conversion & engine - nothing but say $500 to get up to good original running specs
Availability of Parts (and even engine) - should be good to very good. Maybe not local parts store or Pep Boys but RN, AB and the others should be able to get you what you need fast enough.
Engine Weight - 400 lbs
HP - 182HP
TQ - 232 lb/ft
Engine Durability - Can be good. Can also make you want to bunch yourself in the face. Engines can run dirty but changing oil filter can help. Head's needed every 100k?
Engine Drivability - A good stock NAS 90 with 3.9 drives pretty well for what it is. I had no problems driving many hours on highway with 33"s and 35"s. Things can get hot tho.
Engine Upgrades - not much. Supercharger
MPG - 12-13MPG - about 200 miles per tank (14 gallons IIRC).
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  #25  
Old August 26th, 2014, 01:55 PM
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Mercedes OM617 w/ RD Conversion Kit

Truck Build - 110 - 3 dr soft top, 33" tires, sliders, HD axles, bumper, winch, bare bones interior
Truck Weight - 4,500
Cost of conversion & engine - $4,000-5000 total - ($500-1000 for engine. $3,300 kit, various hose pieces needed)
Availability of Parts (and even engine) - Engines seems to be readily available, Places like Pelican seem to have every part needed. eEuro has a good inventory and ships to me in a day (CT to NJ). Should be parts at local Euro supply shops as OM617's were plentiful and many still on the road.
Engine Weight - 550-600 lbs
HP - 125HP
TQ - 180 lb/ft
Engine Durability - Seems a lot of people hate on this engine for weak power (very close to a 200tdi :shrug but I've read in many posts that they can go for long mileage. Valve adjustments needed. So far I've found mine straight forward as hell and for the most part easy to work with. I still have a far way to go on my conversion tho.
Engine Drivability - People have posted that RD's OM617 drives well and can carry 70MPH on the highway. Also reports of being smooth for a diesel.
Engine Upgrades - Bigger IP plungers ($1,000 est) and bigger turbo/IC hookup ($500-1000) - merely a guess: 175hp/225 lb ft.
MPG - 20MPG - about 400 miles per tank (20 gallons 110 tank).
Other Notes: - The RD kit while not cheap is put together very well and has some very trick items like the oil pan. And it bolts onto where a 2.5/200tdi was. Can be done in a weekend. Merc parts are easy to get and the motors are available with a quick search. For my build I wanted a manual gearbox and simple as hell engine. Yes it needs glow plugs to fire but I have read those can be wired very simply. Not the be all/end all conversion but I can see why RD chose this engine to develop. US tuning still seems a little all over the place but hopefully soon there will be a IP tuning easily available to us in the states.

EDIT - If I have missed something or gotten a stat incorrect please feel free to post corrections.
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  #26  
Old August 26th, 2014, 02:11 PM
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C'mon now, 750 cubic inches and just a few pounds more than a Rover 4.6? How about 800 horses? Or Vortec it to about 2200. You know you want this:
http://www.donovanengineering.com/Bl...0BigBlock.html
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  #27  
Old August 26th, 2014, 02:20 PM
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Chevrolet LS 5.3

Truck Build - 110 - for this engine I would love to wrap it around a nice 5 dr SW with smooth as hell interior. 33" all terrains. Full cage for safety.
Truck Weight - 5,500
Cost of conversion & engine - $4,000-7,000 total (guess)
Availability of Parts (and even engine) - Umm, you probably could get rebuild kits from the shelves of Walmart for them. Not sure if anything else out there has the parts support as these do.
Engine Weight - 450-500 lbs
HP - 300 HP (give or take)
TQ - 300 lb/ft (give or take)
Engine Durability - very good to excellent
Engine Drivability - very good to excellent
Engine Upgrades - too much to write but honestly the stock 300/300 should be way plenty. Axle upgrades may be needed even with stock.
MPG - I would wager 15-20MPG - (up to 400 miles on a 20 gallon 110 tank).
Other Notes: - I have a 5.3 (I think it's the LC9) in my Sub with 85k miles. It just works. It moves the 6,000-7,000 lbs around pretty easily. If I don't drive it too fast it will give me 18MPG on the highway at 70-75MPH. I think swapping a 3.5 LR V8 5 door with this engine would yield a great driver and is on my wish build list. I also would love to build a low slung 110 with 37" tires 5.3/auto and see what it would do. Toughest decision would be which axles to run.

I'm certainly no LS conversion expert so please add or correct as needed.

------ Follow up post added August 26th, 2014 02:28 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
C'mon now, 750 cubic inches and just a few pounds more than a Rover 4.6? How about 800 horses? Or Vortec it to about 2200. You know you want this:
http://www.donovanengineering.com/Bl...0BigBlock.html
Will they even sell you one if you tell them it's going into a Defender or RR? Those things are way too nice for a Land Rover product.
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  #28  
Old August 29th, 2014, 07:03 AM
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Got a response from Lloyd engine in the UK:

"We can supply a complete 3-piece kit to bolt the Land-Rover fly-wheel, clutch and gearbox to the Mercedes OM606 engine for £995, plus postage to the U.S.A"

A oil pan, an MT82 and boom.

180HP 380TQ mean machine capable of 2x that output
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  #29  
Old August 29th, 2014, 07:30 AM
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If the OM606 is the same engine used in the Sprinter vans, that is an attractive option simply due to parts availability.

Great thread.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #30  
Old August 29th, 2014, 08:34 AM
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Is there any information available about the cost of the GM trans --> LT230 adapter? I would imagine its in the neighborhood of $700-900 but would rather not wildly guess.
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  #31  
Old August 29th, 2014, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Is there any information available about the cost of the GM trans --> LT230 adapter? I would imagine its in the neighborhood of $700-900 but would rather not wildly guess.
Lots here and at Marks adapters
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #32  
Old August 29th, 2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
For the record, Im not a fan of the Rover V8. It isn't nearly as economical (to run or build) or robust as a SBC.

-Jeff
For the record, SBC (small block Chevy) has yet to be discussed in this thread, and shouldn't be confused with the GM LSx engines.
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  #33  
Old September 1st, 2014, 10:59 AM
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OK, havin read thru the 18 pages at the GM LS thread & now this one, I'm still a little(read a lot!) unclear about the tranny. I like shifting thru the 5 speeds, have always liked stick shifts. Does these swaps mean there won't be a standard trans anymore? Its gonna require an auto tranny? Haven't shopped the engine, my 3.9V8 did pretty well in Ouray/Durango last month but I understand that with about 160K miles it'll be due for some work soon, so starting to keep options open. Suggestions?
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  #34  
Old September 1st, 2014, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UTRPh View Post
OK, havin read thru the 18 pages at the GM LS thread & now this one, I'm still a little(read a lot!) unclear about the tranny. I like shifting thru the 5 speeds, have always liked stick shifts. Does these swaps mean there won't be a standard trans anymore? Its gonna require an auto tranny? Haven't shopped the engine, my 3.9V8 did pretty well in Ouray/Durango last month but I understand that with about 160K miles it'll be due for some work soon, so starting to keep options open. Suggestions?
I think there are a lot of adapters for a n4500 transmission but I feel like the placement causes a lot fabrication at the transmission bump. Basically is search 'engine' to 'transmission' adapter on google to see who makes the bell housing and flywheel adapters. The auto most likely retains the closest to stock look on these trucks
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  #35  
Old September 1st, 2014, 11:58 AM
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I had given swap theory some thought before ny current LWB motor project.
I had a rust-free Classic that needed a motor.
I went with the 300 tdi for a couple reasons...main one was I had never done it and it has been a good learning experience.
I'm certain its cheaper than the LS option, which would have been my next choice.

I just did not want to do a plain Rover V8 motor swap.


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  #36  
Old September 1st, 2014, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisC View Post
I like Dr. Olds monster motors as well. But personal opinion, not suited for the Rover. Too big and too heavy. I'm not typically a Ford person. But has anyone tried a Ford v8?
I have a Mustang 5.0 (302) in my 109. These engines are very reliable, parts are easily available and way cheaper than LR engine parts.

The ford small blocks 302, 348 (302 with common stroker crank) and 351 is narrower than the small block Chevy so is an easier fit side to side. The Ford engine is longer due to the distributor being at the front of the engine where it can be easily serviced. Defenders should have a long enough bay that this does not present a problem. On a Series truck you need to switch to a cross flow radiator mounted on top of the front cross member and an electric pusher fan. Most stock cast iron exhaust headers exhaust diagonally out the back and are aimed at the bulkhead. There are a couple of tuck exhaust manifolds that will work on a series/defender. or you can go to a header system.

You need to switch to a Bronco oil pan with the sump in the back. passenger car oil pans have the sump up front

The Ford small bock is lighter than the Chevy small block. With aluminum heads the Ford 302 weighs about 50 lbs less than a 2.25L petrol engine.

My 302 lives between 750 RPM (idle) and 2,700 RPM (70 MPH on the freeway) so is set up for maximum low end power (I could care less what it puts out above 3000 RPM) and fuel economy.

It is fitted with AFR aluminum heads with their smallest valves and passages for better for bottom end power. It has a COMP 351 cam that is designed for low end torque and economy. The 351 cam provides Ford HO ignition timing. The intake is handled by a 1989-1993 Mustang HO fuel injection system. Since wind resistance is the major factor at freeways speeds I only picked up about 1 or 2 MPG over a stock 2.25L at freeway speeds but almost doubled my stop and go around town mileage. And I love the way the EFI compensates for changes in altitude. A nice thing about that system is that it is self configuring to the engine. The computer self adjusts for different cams and such.

The oil filter is mounted on the side at frame level. This means switching to the shorter Dodge 318 V8 oil filter or to a remote filter setup available from Ford Racing.

And of course there are a number of off the shelf gearbox, bellhousing & clutch combinations that you just bolt together. Including the NP4500. Advance Adapter makes adapters to go between several gearboxes and a Series transfercase and possibly a coiler transfercase. It is always a good idea to check Advance adapters for any adapter you need. Call them and ask for Matt. He is their land Rover guy.

My drive train in part consists of the Mustang 302, NP-435 four speed gearbox and Ashcroft Transmission high ratio transfercase.

The power specs for vehicles are peak figures measured at over 5000 RPM. General purpose off road trucks live below 3000 RPM and a whole lot of torque makes it easier for your wheels to break traction on soft surfaces. Unless you are building a highway hot rod you want to pay attention at the specs below 3000 RPM. High HP engines normally gain additional power at high RPMs by robbing power from the low end.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/...onversions.htm


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  #37  
Old September 1st, 2014, 04:31 PM
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TeriAnn, don't forget the 427 version that Carroll Shelby put in his Cobras.
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  #38  
Old September 10th, 2014, 08:49 PM
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How about one of these? Dirt cheap and probably not much more silly than a BMW motor...



MERCEDES V6
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  #39  
Old September 10th, 2014, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeriAnn View Post

The Ford small bock is lighter than the Chevy small block. With aluminum heads the Ford 302 weighs about 50 lbs less than a 2.25L petrol engine.




I had no idea the V8 weighed less. That is pretty awesome.
So the series tcase holds up to the v8 torque and hp fine ?
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  #40  
Old September 11th, 2014, 12:22 AM
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We seem to have a thread like this every few months.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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